◎ 文 《法人》全媒體記者 李立娟 《法人》實習(xí)生 賈潤思

能源投資房地產(chǎn)和股票投資不同，需要有長期規(guī)劃。 “一帶一路”倡議在促進能源領(lǐng)域投資方面發(fā)揮著獨特作用，具有非常重要的積極意義

葡萄牙長期以來一直被視為是可再生能源領(lǐng)域的領(lǐng)導(dǎo)者，葡萄牙原經(jīng)濟與創(chuàng)新部長曼努埃爾·皮諾（Manuel Pinho）曾于2005年至2009年擔任歐洲能源委員會主席。他被公認為是葡萄牙清潔能源改革的世界級領(lǐng)袖，歐洲戰(zhàn)略能源技術(shù)計劃的推動者，一手打造了歐洲能源新紀元。

7月，皮諾教授在北京大學(xué)擔任客座教授期間，就中國新能源的發(fā)展、“一帶一路”倡議中的新能源改革的推進作用等議題，接受了《法人》記者的專訪。

“我會花更多時間了解中國”

《法人》：據(jù)葡萄牙電網(wǎng)運營商 REN 稱，葡萄牙2018年 3 月可再生能源的發(fā)電量超過了全國的電網(wǎng)負荷，實現(xiàn)了100% 清潔能源。對此您有何評價？

曼努埃爾 · 皮諾：葡萄牙由傳統(tǒng)能源向清潔能源轉(zhuǎn)變期間，我曾經(jīng)擔任能源部部長，但我決不認為我是一名政治家。因為我在國際組織、私營企業(yè)和學(xué)校機構(gòu)都做過很多工作。清潔能源戰(zhàn)略的實施主要包括拍賣大量水力和陸上風(fēng)力發(fā)電許可，并承諾保持電價不變。太陽能光伏發(fā)電和海上風(fēng)力發(fā)電因發(fā)電方式成本極高，過去并不是可選項。而現(xiàn)在，光伏發(fā)電和風(fēng)力發(fā)電成本大幅下降，成本已經(jīng)不是問題了。核能發(fā)電也不是合適的選擇，因為葡萄牙面積狹??；核電成本高昂，且社會各界普遍對核電抱有畏懼心理。

曼努埃爾·皮諾Manuel Pinho

與此同時，政府當時還鼓勵企業(yè)在國內(nèi)生產(chǎn)產(chǎn)品，從而創(chuàng)造更多就業(yè)機會。我可能還沒有資格來評價我自己，但是葡萄牙長期以來一直被視為是可再生能源領(lǐng)域的領(lǐng)導(dǎo)者，可再生能源是代表未來的能源。

I was a minister during the transition of my country to clean energies,however by no ways I see myself as a politician. I had many jobs in international organizations, the private sector and academics. The energy strategy consisted mostly on auctioning a large number of permits to produce power from hydro and onshore wind and the commitment to maintain the rules unchanged. Solar PV and offshore wind were not alternatives because they were very expensive which is not the case anymore given the spectacular decline in their costs. Nuclear was not an option either because the country is pretty small； costs are high； and societies do not feel comfortable with this technology. At the same time, manufacturers were encouraged to produce in the country, which created many jobs. I am not well quali fi ed to evaluate myself,however my country has been considered a leader in renewable energies for long.Renewable energies are the energy of the future.

《法人》：作為北京大學(xué)的客座教授，您來中國的主要研究領(lǐng)域是什么？

曼努埃爾 · 皮諾：能源目前涉及到經(jīng)濟、金融、監(jiān)管、政治等問題，是一個非常令人興奮的話題。而且我的課程內(nèi)容充實，講課活力滿滿，因此，自從2010年以來，我先后受邀到7所世界頂級大學(xué)教書。北京大學(xué)是一所世界級的大學(xué)，我有幸在工程系的一個項目中開展教學(xué)工作，這個項目吸引了很多來自中國和其他國家的學(xué)生。我喜歡教學(xué)，也正是因為教學(xué)，我不斷旅行，足跡遍布四海。我的研究領(lǐng)域是關(guān)于中國與全球化，中國的碳排放情況以及中國將可再生能源納入電力系統(tǒng)中面臨的挑戰(zhàn)。而且，鑒于貿(mào)易爭端、二氧化碳排放量的上升以及大規(guī)模整合可再生能源帶來的意想不到的挑戰(zhàn)，這些都是這個話題令人著迷的地方。每年，我都會花更多的時間停留在中國，這樣我才能更好地了解中國國情。

Since 2010 I have been invited to teach at 7 top universities around the world, energy is a very exciting topic with many dimensions from technology to economics and fi nance and including regulation and geopolitics. PKU is a world- class university. I am delighted with the opportunity to teach in a program that has attracted so many talented students from China and other countries. I love teaching which makes me travel constantly and my research is on China and globalization, China′s carbon emissions and the challenge of integrating renewable energies in power systems. I believe that they are exciting topics related to real world situations, given trade disputes, the rise in CO2 emissions and the unexpected challenges from integrating variable renewable energies in large scale. Every year I spend more time in China,this allows me to know your country better.

與中國合作極為重要

《法人》：您如何評判中國“一帶一路”倡議在清潔能源改革方面所做的努力？

曼努埃爾 · 皮諾：“一帶一路”是自馬歇爾計劃以來最重要的國際合作倡議。它不僅提升了中國在世界上的形象，也為許多國家創(chuàng)造了機會。在我看來，這對于抵消貿(mào)易保護主義帶來的不利影響是非常重要的，此時此刻，“一帶一路”的倡議顯得尤為重要?！耙粠б宦贰笔乖S多國家能源需求劇增，在生產(chǎn)、運輸和流通等諸多領(lǐng)域，這些國家亟須開發(fā)新能源項目來保障能源供給。

因此，與中國開展相關(guān)合作極為重要。他們不僅能獲得資金支持，還能學(xué)習(xí)先進的技術(shù)。中國已經(jīng)在太陽能光伏、高壓能源運輸和電動汽車等方面處于世界領(lǐng)先地位。歐洲和中國的能源市場非常多樣化，但是各國都有著共同目標，那就是發(fā)展清潔能源和避免過度依賴外部能源供給?！耙粠б宦贰背h不僅能極大促進投資，而且有助于減少碳排放。因此我認為， “一帶一路”倡議的實施在2018年全球碳排放并不樂觀的情況下，這是首先需要考慮的任務(wù)。我們并沒有足夠的時間了。

The Belt and Road is undoubtedly the most important external cooperation initiative since the Marshall Plan. It has not only raised China′s profile in the world but also created opportunities for many countries. Its importance is greater than ever before to offset trends in protectionism, which are potentially very harmful,everybody may lose. . In many countries of B&R energy demand is growing fast and they need to develop new energy projects in many areas, all along from production, to transport and distribution. Cooperation with China will be very important to allow them bridging the financial gap and acquire technical expertize. In energy, China is already a leader in a few areas, for example solar PV, high- voltage energy transport and electric vehicles. Energy markets in Europe and China are very diverse, however countries share the common goal of developing clean energies and avoid excessive external dependence. The B&R initiative is a powerful tool and it has the capacity not only to promote investment, but also to contribute to the reduction of carbon emissions. This is a priority and the fi gures for world carbon emissions in 2018 are not good. We are running out of time.

《法人》：您如何評價“一帶一路”沿線亞歐能源市場的特點？有的評論稱，亞歐能源市場分散，基礎(chǔ)設(shè)施老化，各國能源政策缺乏透明度，亞歐應(yīng)實現(xiàn)“能源一體化”，創(chuàng)造一個更加一體化、相互關(guān)聯(lián)和競爭的市場。您如何認為？

曼努埃爾 · 皮諾：你認為市場是分散的，這并沒有錯。如何通過基礎(chǔ)設(shè)施投資使得市場（包括石油、天然氣，電力運輸和配送等領(lǐng)域）更加一體化，是我們應(yīng)該優(yōu)先考慮的問題。中國公司是這些領(lǐng)域的領(lǐng)導(dǎo)者。誠然，能源政策在許多國家缺乏透明度，因為能源還牽扯到政治問題。在任何一個國家，應(yīng)對最終消費者支付的能源價格和缺乏主權(quán)的感覺（能源依賴）都是敏感的。

You are totally right in arguing that markets are fragmented, one of the priorities is to make them more integrated as a result of investment in infrastructure, all along from oil, natural gas and power transportation and distribution. Companies from China are leaders in these areas. It is true that energy policies lack transparency in many, if not in most countries, because energy has a strong political dimension. Anywhere in the world it is politically sensitive to deal with energy prices paid by final consumers and with the perception of lack of sovereignty, i.e. energy dependence.

能源投資需要有長期規(guī)劃

《法人》：您認為世界清潔能源的發(fā)展面臨哪些挑戰(zhàn)？

曼努埃爾 · 皮諾：清潔能源在世界范圍內(nèi)進展良好，其減少碳排放和污染的能力已經(jīng)得到證實，成本也急劇下降，且這一趨勢會繼續(xù)下去。當然，清潔能源的使用也帶來了一些挑戰(zhàn)。比如，它改變了我們對電力系統(tǒng)的運作方式和最佳治理模式的看法；如何建立有效的定價機制；新能源戰(zhàn)略如何對接交通電氣化等?？偟膩碚f，清潔能源是一個非常吸引人的課題，需要各國進一步研究和交流經(jīng)驗。

Clean energies are progressing well around the world, their capacity to contribute to reducing carbon emissions and pollution is well established and their cost has declined precipitously, and this trend is likely to continue. At the same time it is creating several challenges, all along from changing our perception about how power systems work and what is the best governance model, to establishing efficient pricing mechanisms not to mention how renewable energies will fi t with the electri fi cation of transport. Overall, this is a fascinating topic that requires further research and the exchange of experiences by countries.

《法人》： “一帶一路”能源合作仍然面臨著哪些挑戰(zhàn)？

曼努埃爾 · 皮諾：能源投資和房地產(chǎn)、股票投資不同，需要有長期規(guī)劃。因此，規(guī)劃和推出新項目需要時間。“一帶一路”倡議在促進能源領(lǐng)域投資方面發(fā)揮著獨特的作用，這個過程是循序漸進的，我認為這是具有積極意義的，當然成功需要更多決心和耐心的付出。

Investments in the energy sector have a long- term horizon； it is not the same as investing in real estate or in the stock market. Therefore, it will take time for planning and the roll out of new projects. The B&R initiative is a multi year initiative with a unique capacity to facilitating investments in the energy sector, its roll out will be gradual, which is positive in my view, and its success depends on determination and patience.