都文娟/DU Wenjuan，英文校對 和馬町/English Proofread by Martijn de Geus

本期作者

專訪2014普利茲克建筑獎獲獎人坂茂：建筑師應(yīng)該看到處在困難中的人群

Exclusive Interview with 2014 Pritzker Prize Laureate Shigeru Ban: Architects Have to Meet People Who Have Problems

都文娟/DU Wenjuan，英文校對 和馬町/English Proofread by Martijn de Geus

日本建筑師坂茂榮獲2014年普利茲克建筑獎

3月24日，普利茲克建筑獎評委會宣布，日本建筑師坂茂榮獲2014年普利茲克建筑獎。他成為第7位榮獲普利茲克建筑獎的日本建筑師，前6位分別是丹下健三（1987年）、槙文彥（1993年）、安藤忠雄（1995年）、妹島和世與西澤立衛(wèi)團隊（2010年）以及伊東豐雄（2013年）。

坂茂出生于東京，現(xiàn)年56歲，最初在南加州建筑學(xué)院（當(dāng)時的總部設(shè)在加州圣莫妮卡）接受建筑學(xué)教育，并于1984年獲得了紐約庫珀聯(lián)盟的建筑學(xué)學(xué)士學(xué)位，2006-2009年，坂茂曾擔(dān)任普利茲克建筑獎的評委會成員。他在世界各地的建筑院校講學(xué)和任教，目前是京都藝術(shù)與設(shè)計大學(xué)的教授。同時，他在東京、巴黎和紐約設(shè)有工作室。他不僅為私人客戶設(shè)計優(yōu)雅且富于新意的作品，而且將同樣具有創(chuàng)造性和豐富的設(shè)計方法，廣泛運用于人道主義事業(yè)。20年來，坂茂奔波于世界各地的自然和人為災(zāi)害現(xiàn)場，同當(dāng)?shù)孛癖?、志愿者及學(xué)生合作，為災(zāi)民設(shè)計和構(gòu)建簡單、得體、低成本且可循環(huán)利用的避難場所和社區(qū)設(shè)施。

坂茂在他從事的所有領(lǐng)域總是能夠發(fā)現(xiàn)多種多樣的設(shè)計方案，他通常會根據(jù)結(jié)構(gòu)、材料、景觀、自然通風(fēng)和光照條件，致力為建筑物的使用者們營造舒適環(huán)境。從私人住宅、企業(yè)總部、博物館、音樂廳到其他民用建筑，坂茂的作品總是以其原創(chuàng)性、經(jīng)濟性和精巧性著稱，并且不依賴于今天常見的高科技技術(shù)解決方案。

坂茂的人道主義工作開始于對1994年盧旺達(dá)大屠殺的救助，有數(shù)百萬人因此而流離失所。坂茂向聯(lián)合國難民事務(wù)高級專員提出了用硬紙管建造收容所的想法，并受聘成為顧問。1995年日本神戶大地震后，他再次貢獻(xiàn)出自己的時間和才華。在那里，坂茂開發(fā)出了“紙木宅”，將人們捐贈的啤酒箱內(nèi)填滿沙袋作為地基，再將硬紙管垂直排列形成房屋的墻壁。坂茂還為神戶災(zāi)民設(shè)計了一個用硬紙管搭建的社區(qū)中心。它后來被拆散，并于2008年運往臺灣重建。

坂茂經(jīng)常與當(dāng)?shù)貫?zāi)民、學(xué)生和其他志愿者合作建造這些救災(zāi)項目。1995年，他創(chuàng)立了一個名為vAN的非政府組織（NGO）——建筑師志愿者網(wǎng)絡(luò)。每次發(fā)生地震、海嘯、颶風(fēng)或戰(zhàn)爭，他都會領(lǐng)導(dǎo)vAN的志愿者前往當(dāng)?shù)?，其中包括日本、土耳其、印度、斯里蘭卡、中國、海地、意大利、新西蘭和菲律賓等國家和地區(qū)。

普利茲克建筑獎在評語中寫道：“坂茂的全部作品不僅僅呈現(xiàn)了他善良的初衷，也體現(xiàn)了創(chuàng)造性的思維模式及革新的設(shè)計理念，特別是在建筑材料和結(jié)構(gòu)方面。通過杰出設(shè)計，來應(yīng)對高難挑戰(zhàn)，坂茂擴展了建筑師這一職業(yè)；他使建筑師能夠參與政府、公共機構(gòu)、慈善家及受災(zāi)群體之間的對話。他強烈的社會責(zé)任感和用高質(zhì)量設(shè)計滿足社會需求的積極行動，以及他應(yīng)對人道主義挑戰(zhàn)的獨有方式，使得本屆普利茲克獎得主成為一名模范建筑大師?！?/p>

頒獎儀式將于2014年6月13日在荷蘭阿姆斯特丹國家博物館舉行。

普利茲克建筑獎于1979年由已故的杰伊·普利茲克和他的妻子辛迪創(chuàng)立，每年授予一名在世的建筑師，以表彰其在建筑設(shè)計中所反映出的天賦、遠(yuǎn)見和責(zé)任感，及其通過建筑藝術(shù)對人類社會和人居環(huán)境所做出的恒久和卓著的貢獻(xiàn)。獲獎?wù)邔⒌玫?0萬美元獎金以及一枚銅質(zhì)獎?wù)隆?/p>

Shigeru Ban Named Pritzker Laureate 2014

The Pritzker Jury has selected Japanese architect Shigeru Ban as the 2014 winner of the Pritzker Prize in the evening of 24thMarch. Shigeru Ban will be the seventh Japanese architect to become a Pritzker Laureate — the frst six being the late Kenzo Tange in 1987, Fumihiko Maki in 1993, Tadao Ando in 1995, the team of Kazuyo Sejima and Ryue Nishizawa in 2010, and Toyo Ito in 2013.

Shigeru Ban, a Tokyo-born, 56-year-old architect with offices in Tokyo, Paris and New York, is rare in the feld of architecture. He attended architecture school frst at the Southern California Institute of Architecture (then based in Santa Monica, California), and earned his bachelor's degree in architecture from Cooper Union in New York City in 1984. Shigeru Ban served as a member of the Pritzker Architecture Prize jury from 2006 to 2009. He lectures and teaches at architecture schools around the world and is currently a professor at Kyoto University of Art and Design. He designs elegant, innovative work for private clients, and uses the same inventive and resourceful design approach for his extensive humanitarian eforts. For 20 years Ban has traveled to sites of natural and man-made disasters around the world, to work with local citizens, volunteers and students, to design and construct simple, dignifed, low-cost, recyclable shelters and community buildings for the disaster victims.

In all parts of his practice, Ban finds a wide variety of design solutions, often based around structure, materials, view, natural ventilation and light, and a drive to make comfortable places for the people who use them. From private residences and corporate headquarters, to museums, concert halls and other civic buildings, Ban is known for the originality, economy, and ingeniousness of his works, which do not rely on today's common high-tech solutions.

Ban's humanitarian work began in response to the 1994 confict in Rwanda, which threw millions of people into tragic living conditions. Ban proposed paper-tube shelters to the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees and they hired him as a consultant. After the 1995 earthquake in Kobe, Japan, he again donated his time and talent. There, Ban developed the "Paper Log House", for vietnamese refugees in the area, with donated beer crates filled with sandbags for the foundation, he lined up the paper cardboard tubes vertically, to create the walls of the houses. Ban also designed "Paper Church", as a community center of paper tubes for the victims of Kobe. It was later disassembled and sent to Taiwan, and reconstructed there, in 2008.

Ban works with local victims, students, and other volunteers to get these disaster relief projects built. In 1995, he founded a non-governmental organization (NGO) called vAN: voluntary Architects' Network. With vAN, following earthquakes, tsunami, hurricanes, and war, he has conducted this work in Japan, Turkey, India, Sri Lanka, China, Haiti, Italy, New zealand, and currently, the Philippines.

The Pritzker Jury citation said "His creative approach and innovation, especially related to building materials and structures, not merely good intentions, are present in all his works. Through excellent design, in response to pressing challenges, Shigeru Ban has expanded the role of the profession; he has made a place at the table for architects to participate in the dialogue with governments and public agencies, philanthropists, and the affected communities. His sense of responsibility and positive action to create architecture of quality to serve society's needs, combined with his original approach to these humanitarian challenges, make this year’s winner an exemplary professional".

The award ceremony will take place on June 13, 2014, at the Rijksmuseum in Amsterdam,The Netherlands.

The Pritzker Architecture Prize was founded in 1979 by the late Jay A. Pritzker and his wife, Cindy. Its purpose is to honor annually a living architect whose built work demonstrates a combination of those qualities of talent, vision and commitment, which has produced consistent and signifcant contributions to humanity and the built environment through the art of architecture. The laureates receive a $100000 grant and a bronze medallion.

1 2014普利茲克建筑獎獲獎人坂茂/2014 Pritzker Prize LaureateShigeru Ban（攝影/Photo：坂茂建筑師事務(wù)所/ Shigeru Ban Architects）

巴黎時間3月23日晚上，《世界建筑》有幸在巴黎蓬皮杜藝術(shù)中心廣場的咖啡廳見到坂茂，在得知他成為2014普利茲克建筑獎得主的第一時間內(nèi)，我們就獲獎感受、城市、設(shè)計、材料、技術(shù)、社會等方面，對坂茂進(jìn)行了采訪。

坂茂：這是我接受的第一個單獨的、正式的采訪。

WA：您在獲得這份建筑領(lǐng)域內(nèi)的最高獎項之后有何感受？

坂茂：這是一種莫大的榮幸，我很難相信。我是在今年1月底的時候得到的消息，明天的大概這個時間將會在官網(wǎng)正式宣布。甚至是現(xiàn)在，我仍然很難相信，因為像很多著名建筑師，雷姆·庫哈斯、羅伯特·文丘里、理查德·羅杰斯、讓·努維爾、彼得·卒姆托，他們這樣的高水平，使這個獎項代表真正的榮譽。而且，我認(rèn)為我并沒有在他們所代表的最高水平，我可能只在中等水平，還有很長的路要走。所以，我把這份獎，看作是對我的鼓勵，讓我繼續(xù)做我所做的事情。

WA：您認(rèn)為評審委員會最終選中您的原因是什么？

坂茂：我想我之所以被認(rèn)可，是因為我擴展了建筑師這個職業(yè)的范疇和角色，不只是為富人和大開發(fā)商工作，我們更應(yīng)該為經(jīng)歷自然災(zāi)害后失去住所的人們設(shè)計一些更好的東西。所以，我想我的個人聲譽是完全不同的，而普利茲克基金會和評審委員會的認(rèn)可，是如此的重要，他們不想再在明星建筑師里一個接一個地選擇獲獎人，他們想通過這樣的方式來傳達(dá)某種特別的信息。所以，我很高興這次能被選中，因為我在做不同的現(xiàn)代建筑。我想設(shè)計漂亮的、舒適的房子，哪怕是為災(zāi)后而建的臨時房子。所以，我不是名人，但這的確鼓勵了我，繼續(xù)做我所做的事情。

評審委員們希望選擇那些在建筑領(lǐng)域內(nèi)有自身獨特的性格和特點，而不總是一些摩天大樓或者大型紀(jì)念性的建筑。所以，我想我被選中的原因，可能是因為我經(jīng)歷的援助救助項目，還有對于建筑設(shè)計，我有自己的解決方式。我為弱勢群體以及那些遭受自然災(zāi)害的人們做設(shè)計。

WA：您能否概括一下自己的設(shè)計過程和方法？

坂茂：每一個新的項目，對我來說都有可能是一次新的挑戰(zhàn)。首先，我會去看項目場地和業(yè)主，去找出他們所需要解決的難題。然后，我會跟當(dāng)?shù)氐娜藗兞奶?，去發(fā)現(xiàn)他們的需求，他們都有些什么樣的問題，還有我怎樣才能通過設(shè)計來解決這些難題。接著，我會嘗試著去找當(dāng)?shù)氐牟牧希視A向于用一些可回收的、低成本的、可循環(huán)利用的并且在現(xiàn)場方便使用的材料。此外，我還會希望找當(dāng)?shù)氐慕ㄖと藖斫ㄔ欤驗闉?zāi)難發(fā)生之后，一些人可能需要一份工作。其實有些時候，建設(shè)工人可以是任何人，像學(xué)生和志愿者，能夠一起參與建造。

WA：您被大家所熟知的很重要原因是因為您在建筑中使用竹子、織物、硬紙管、塑料等材料，那么您選擇某種特定材料的標(biāo)準(zhǔn)是什么？

坂茂：任何可以用的、當(dāng)?shù)氐牟牧?，我都感興趣。我不想浪費任何材料，所以我嘗試去用所有可用的材料。像硬紙管，原材料不貴，而且到處都有，無論是在成都，還是在菲律賓，任何一個地方都可以用。我給你看看我們正在菲律賓做的事情的照片。這是我的助理在現(xiàn)場拍的照片，你知道2013年11月菲律賓的“海燕”臺風(fēng)嗎？這是我們正在做的事情，方案已經(jīng)通過了，在菲律賓的宿務(wù)，是臨時住所。這個是菲律賓的啤酒筐，我們把沙袋填進(jìn)去來增加它的重量，這種塑料筐原本是用來裝啤酒瓶子的，我們重新利用它在填充沙袋后作為地基，因為它在沙子放進(jìn)去之前很輕，而且可以防水，這里經(jīng)常下雨。硬紙管也是當(dāng)?shù)氐?，竹席子用作圍護墻，大概有10m2大，可以一天之內(nèi)建成，一般會用2～3年。

WA：您是如何定義“可持續(xù)性”的？

坂茂：我理解不了什么是可持續(xù)性，這是一個問題，而且是一個廣告化的問題。因為它總是被用作廣告，像可持續(xù)、生態(tài)、綠色等。如果生態(tài)和可持續(xù)的定義是不浪費，那么我很確定我在做什么。此外，有一些不同的方式在說可持續(xù)性，用了很昂貴的材料，比如，用一些非常貴的玻璃，為了達(dá)到所謂的可持續(xù)性，實際上是浪費了綠色的材料。但是我真的不知道什么是可持續(xù)性，什么是生態(tài)，因此我不會說生態(tài)友好，我做我想做的，而不是先有什么策略。

WA：您做了很多援助救助項目，我可以問您為什么會選擇遭受災(zāi)害的人群作為您設(shè)計的服務(wù)對象？建筑設(shè)計和建筑師如何服務(wù)于弱勢群體？

坂茂：因為我總是歡迎難題。如果給我一個不受限制的預(yù)算，隨意的場地，讓我做任何我想做的事情，但是事實上，我什么都做不了。我總是希望有一些難題，可能是場地條件很艱難，可能是預(yù)算很低，很多的限制條件，我很愿意通過設(shè)計來解決這些難題。如果給我一個毫無限制條件的項目，我可能什么都做不出來。我更愿意去面對所有的難題，之后通過設(shè)計來解決。但很多建筑師更傾向于去設(shè)計一個標(biāo)志性的東西，沒有任何限制條件，無限的預(yù)算，可以自由發(fā)揮。但我總是希望有限制條件，預(yù)算限制、場地限制、特定的業(yè)主等等，我傾向于去挑戰(zhàn)這樣的限制條件，并通過設(shè)計來解決問題，而不是沒有限制地去做一個標(biāo)志物。全球有很多優(yōu)秀的建筑師在設(shè)計雄偉的標(biāo)志性的建筑物，但是我更傾向于成為一個解決難題的特殊建筑師。我很享受其中的過程，總是在一個困難的情況下，找出問題，并通過設(shè)計來解決。這就是我的態(tài)度。

我們知道像醫(yī)生、律師，他們總是在為有困難的人群工作。而當(dāng)建筑師設(shè)計一個房子時，對于業(yè)主來說是一個幸運的時刻，開心、富有，建筑師在為幸福的人群工作。而醫(yī)生和律師，他們服務(wù)的對象總是在困難的時刻。我覺得建筑師也應(yīng)該看到這樣處在困難中的人群，像遭受自然災(zāi)害后失去家園和產(chǎn)業(yè)的人們，我覺得這是我們的責(zé)任。建筑師、醫(yī)生、律師都有較高的社會地位，但是只有建筑師沒有在服務(wù)社會，但卻是我們應(yīng)該去做的。這是我最初的想法，建筑師為什么會這樣的幸運，我們應(yīng)該做得更多。當(dāng)我為經(jīng)歷自然災(zāi)害的人們建造好臨時的房子，他們搬進(jìn)去并且覺得很舒適，我會覺得非常開心和滿足。即使沒有給我相應(yīng)的酬勞也沒有關(guān)系。我的興趣在于給人創(chuàng)造美妙的、舒適的空間，否則，我們需要做的就只是一個雕塑了。

當(dāng)我在災(zāi)區(qū)工作時，我的感受是自己像一個外科大夫，應(yīng)該投入百分之百的專業(yè)性去操作一個手術(shù)，而不是去憐憫病人。

WA：您剛才提到了“標(biāo)志性”建筑，您是怎樣定義“標(biāo)志性”的？

坂茂：“標(biāo)志性”需要在很長一段時期內(nèi)都具有特殊性?！安粚こ５摹焙汀蔼毺氐摹笔怯袇^(qū)別的，“不尋常的”是容易被厭倦的，而“獨特的”是有獨特的想法在其中，不容易被厭倦?！安粚こ５摹笨梢允窃谌魏我粋€地方，僅僅是不尋常，沒有任何的功能和意義。而“獨特的”具有功能的意義，可以繼續(xù)發(fā)展。

WA：有沒有“獨特的”例子呢？

坂茂：像是弗雷·奧托設(shè)計的慕尼黑奧林匹克競賽場，阿爾瓦·阿爾托在芬蘭設(shè)計的房子等。

WA：至今為止，您最為滿意的作品是哪一個？

坂茂：每一個作品我都很喜歡，因為正如我之前所說的，每一個項目都不一樣，我都用心去做。

WA：上周四我去梅斯看了您在那里設(shè)計的蓬皮杜

藝術(shù)梅斯中心，一下火車站就看到了。您對這個項目有什么看法呢？

坂茂：當(dāng)我去梅斯的時候，很多人過來跟我說，“非常感謝您為我們城市設(shè)計了這樣一座漂亮的建筑”。我覺得這個時候，做一個具有標(biāo)志性的建筑，才是為人、為公眾、為社會所做的，當(dāng)?shù)厝藭虼硕械阶院馈?/p>

WA：獲此獎項后，您覺得會有何變化嗎？

坂茂：不會的，我想我不會擴大我們工作室的規(guī)模，甚至有可能縮減。我希望保證我們每個項目的質(zhì)量，因為對我來說，最重要的不是房子的規(guī)模，不是項目的大小，不是數(shù)量，而是質(zhì)量。

WA：我的意思是，官方宣布之后，全球各地都會有關(guān)于您的新聞和消息，到那時，可能會有很多業(yè)主和項目來找您，您對此的態(tài)度是？

坂茂：我覺得這是很危險的，正像你所說的，這個獎項可能會帶給我很多很多的機會，我需要很謹(jǐn)慎。事實上，在任何情況下我都不想擴大我們的規(guī)模，東京工作室有20多人，巴黎有40多人，我覺得這個規(guī)模已經(jīng)很大了。有關(guān)今后的項目和業(yè)主，我仍然傾向于為弱勢群體做設(shè)計，像是遭受自然災(zāi)害的人、低收入的人、鄉(xiāng)村的居民等。因為他們相比其他人有更多的困難，我想幫助他們來解決困難，例如災(zāi)后的居住問題、基本生活條件、精神健康恢復(fù)等，我想我們應(yīng)該更多地關(guān)注這些問題。而富有并擁有實力的業(yè)主，事實上他們并沒有很多問題，他們中的一些人所追求的或許只是更多利益，或者做一個標(biāo)志建筑以讓人們記住他。

WA：如果有一個很大的項目，比如說是大城市中心的政府建筑，您將怎樣對待？

坂茂：雖然我也很喜歡設(shè)計文化類的項目，但我也很想為有著特殊困難的少數(shù)群體設(shè)計社區(qū)中心，而不是服務(wù)于大開發(fā)商。我對于大的商業(yè)項目沒有太多興趣，因為他們大多只是把建筑師作為項目的品牌標(biāo)識。如果是這樣的話，我可能會拒絕。

還好，有很多建筑師在做這樣的項目，可能我是在美國受的建筑學(xué)教育，我沒有在這個主流趨勢中，我離得有些遠(yuǎn)，我有自己的特點和位置吧。

WA：對于改善我們的居住環(huán)境有何建議嗎？像空氣、溫濕度、綠化等，您知道現(xiàn)在的北京……

坂茂：我覺得是時候安靜一些下來了，甚至需要更慢一點。北京這種PM2.5的問題其實東京在20～30年前也有同樣的問題。我想我們應(yīng)該建立一個良好的關(guān)系，你知道的，如果彼此不攜起手來，就沒有未來。

In the evening of 23thMarch, local time, in Paris, we had an opportunity to meet Shigeru Ban at Cafe Beaubourg, at the south side of the Pompidou Centre Plaza in Paris. Right at the moment of the frst announcements that he was awarded the 2014 Pritzker Prize, we had an interview with him about his attitude after winning the award, and the topics of urban design, architecture, material, technology, and society.

Shigeru Ban (Ban): This is the first interview formally and individually...

WA: What's your feeling after being awarded the Pritzker Prize, architecture's top honor?

Ban: It's a great honor for me, and I just can't believe it. I knew I was chosen in the end of January, I can't believe it, because there are many other great architects, like Rem Koolhaas, Robert venturi, Richard Rogers, Jean Nouvel...this certain level, which makes this award a real award, because their level. And I don't think I am at the same top level as them, I think I am just at the middle level. There is still a long way to go for me in architecture. So, I see this prize as an encouragement for me to keep doing what I have been doing.

WA: Do you have any thoughts about possible reasons why the Jury has selected you?

Ban: I think that I was recognized because I made the role of architects wider, to not only work for rich people, or big developers. We can design something better even for the people who lose the houses following a natural disaster. So, my reputation is totally different. I think the Pritzker foundation, the jury, recognizes that it's so important not to just chose famous architects one by one, they want to give some special message with this. So, this year, I am very happy I was chosen, because I am doing modern architecture differently, I want to design beautiful comfortable buildings even for the people and minorities after natural disasters that destroyed their homes. So, in that case, I'm not really...I 'm not a celebrity, but this encourages me, that I have to continue doing what I have been doing.

Juries try to select someone who maybe has special character in the field of architecture, not always the skyscraper or the big monumental buildings. So, I think maybe I was chosen because of my experience in disaster relief work and my own way of fnding architecture design solutions. I design for the vulnerable group and disaster victims.

WA: Generally speaking, what's your design process and method?

Ban: If there is a new project, there might be a new challenge for me. First I go to visit the site and client to find out what's their problem. Then I talk to the local people, try to fnd out what they need and what kind of problems they have, and in which way I can solve their problems by design. Then I try to find local materials, which better be recyclable and low-cost, reusable, and readily available on site. Meanwhile, I also try to fnd local construction workers to build, because some of them need a job after the disaster. But sometimes construction workers could be anyone, students and volunteers, working together.

WA: You are especially known for some of the materials that you have been using, like bamboo, fabric, paper tubes, and plastics. What's your standard to chose a particular architecture's materials?

Ban: Any locally available, is very interesting. I don't like to waste any material, I try to use any material available. For example, paper tubes are cheap and locally available everywhere, in Chengdu, even in the Philippines, it's available everywhere. Let me show you what I am doing in Philippines, I bring the photo.

This is a photo taken by my assistant in the Philippines, you remember the Typhoon Haiyan there last year? This is what I am doing, this proposal has been agreed. It's in Philippines Cebu, temporary shelters, this is Philippines beer crate, we fill sandbags inside to make it weight, this plastic crate used to be encased beer bottles, and we reuse them as foundation, because it's very light before put sandbags inside, and is water-proofed, there is much rain. Paper tubes are also from local, bamboo mat for the wall, around 10 square meters, can be built in one day, we can send you photo. Normally, these kind of houses will be used for 2-3 years.

WA: How do you defne sustainability?

Ban: I cannot understand what is sustainability, It's a question, and it's a commercial question. Because

it's used commercially: sustainable, ecological, green. If that ecology or sustainable definition is about not wasting, then I'm not wondering about what I am doing. Also, there are different ways of talking about sustainability using very expensive material, some glass, to make it very sustainable, but it's very expensive to make, and also a waste of green materials. But I don't know nearly know what is sustainable, what is ecological, that's why I don’t want to say ecological friendly, I always do want I want to do, I have nothing to do with this kind of strategy.

2.3 成都華林小學(xué)紙管臨時校舍，成都，中國/Hualin Temporary Elementary School, Chengdu, China, 2008（攝影/Photos:vAN/voluntary Architects' Network）4 建筑師志愿者在搭建臨時庇護所，宿務(wù)，菲律賓/ Temporary Shelters made by vAN, Cebu, the Philippines（攝影/Photo：坂茂建筑師事務(wù)所/Shigeru Ban Architects）5.6 蓬皮杜梅斯中心，梅斯，法國/Centre Pompidou-Metz, France, 2010（攝影/Photo: 都文娟/DU Wenjuan）

WA: You built many disaster relief projects, may I ask why you chose disaster victims as the group who you really design for? And how architecture and architects achieve the service at the vulnerable people?

Ban: Because I always welcome the problems. If I am given an unlimited budget, a free site, I can do anything I want, but in fact I cannot do anything. I always want have some problem, maybe the site is difcult, budget is low, so many limitations, I'd like to solve the problem through the design. If I'm given a project without restriction, I cannot do anything. I feel more comfortable to accept all problems, to solve by design. But many architects prefer to design a monument with enormous budget, freedom, without any restriction. But I always want to have restrictions, budget restriction, site restriction, particular client... I prefer to challenge this kind of thing and solve by design, instead of making a monument without any restriction.That's...otherwise, there are so many great architects all of the world design wonderful monuments, but I'd like to be particular architect and solve problems. I enjoy the process. I always go to difcult situation to fnd out problems and solve through the design.That's my attitude.

We know medical doctors, lawyers, they always work for people who have problems. Being architects, when we design a house, that moment is a very lucky moment for certain people, they are so happy, lucky, rich, so architects can work with people who enjoy a good moment. But lawyers and medical doctors, they always work for people who start from such an unhappy moment. So I think architects also have to meet people who have problems, such as the people who have lost their houses following a natural disaster, and I think this is our responsibility. Architects, lawyers and medical doctors all have an important position in society, but only as architects, we are not just a service at the society, but we have to do it. That's what I thought originally. Why architects have been so lucky? We have to do more. After I built a temporary housing for people after a natural disaster, they moved inside and felt very comfortable, I felt very happy and very satisfied with this. Even though I'm not paid, this doesn't matter. My interest is making a wonderful and comfortable space for people.

My feeling when I work in disaster area is like a surgeon, who should be totally professional to perform an operation instead of being sympathetic to patients.

WA: You mentioned the word "Monument" just now, and how do you defne it?

Ban: "Monument" has to be special for long time. 'unusual' is different from "unique", "unusual" is getting bored easily, but "unique" is with a unique idea, not easy to be bored. "unusual" can be everywhere, it's just unusual, without any function, no meaning. But "unique" has the meaning of function, which continues to develop further.

WA: Any example for Unique?

Ban: Like Munich Olympic Stadium designed by Frei Otto, and Alvar Aalto's architecture in Finland...

WA: Which project do you like most so far since you started Shigeru Ban Architects in 1985?

Ban: Every project is my favorite, as I said, because each one is very diferent and I put my heart into all of them.

WA: When I went to Metz last Thursday, I saw the Centre Pompidou-Metz as soon as I arrived the Metz station, how do you think about this project?

Ban: When I went to Metz, many people came to tell me, "thank you very much for building such a beautiful building for our city", I think that's the moment we feel making a monument is like making for the people and the public, so that the society, local people can be proud of it.

WA: Is there anything will change after this award?

Ban: Not really, I think I won't increase the size of our office, may even be reduced in some way. And I want to guarantee the quality on each of our projects. Because the most important for me about architecture is not the scale, is not the size of the project, it's the quality, not quantity.

WA: I mean after the official announcement, the whole world will be full of the big news about you. At the same time, many more clients and projects will come to you perhaps, and what's your attitude towards this?

Ban: I think it's very dangerous. As you said, this award may be giving many things, many opportunities, I should be careful. Actually, in any case, I don't want to expand my office, the Tokyo ofce has 20+ staf, and Paris has 40+. I think this is already too big for me. About the future projects and clients, I still continue to design for the vulnerable groups, like disaster victims, low-income people, rural residents...Because they have more problems than the others, housing and living conditions of people, mental and health problems after disasters. I think we have to pay close attention to those problems. On the other hand, the rich and powerful clients, in fact, don't have too many problems, some of them only want proft or one monument to be remembered.

WA: If there is a big project come to you, maybe a government building in the center of a big city, how would you face it?

Ban: Although I would also like to design cultural institutions, I feel also comfortable working for minorities, people who have particular problem, designing a house or community center, not working for a big developer. I have less interest in doing a big commercial project, because they just use architects as branding. If that's the case, maybe I will reject.

It's fne, there are many architects who do that.Though I studied architecture in US, I'm not inside this big stream, I'm just away from this main stream. I have my own personality and my own position.

WA: Any advice to improve our environmental conditions like air, temperature, humidity and vegetation, for example in Beijing?

Ban: I think it's time to stay a little bit quiet, even to slow down. This issue of PM2.5, Tokyo had the same problem 20～30 years ago. I think we have to build a good relationship, you know, there is no future if we don't collaborate with each other.