范路，張利/FAN Lu, ZHANG Li

建造創(chuàng)新與社會(huì)關(guān)懷
——坂茂訪談

Constructing Innovation and Social Care: An Interview with Shigeru Ban

范路，張利/FAN Lu, ZHANG Li

坂茂/Shigeru Ban

出生

1957年8月5日，日本東京

教育背景

1977-1980 南加州建筑學(xué)院

1980-1982 庫(kù)珀聯(lián)盟建筑學(xué)院

1984 獲庫(kù)珀聯(lián)盟建筑學(xué)院建筑學(xué)學(xué)士學(xué)位

工作經(jīng)歷

1982-1983 磯崎新工作室，東京

創(chuàng)辦機(jī)構(gòu)

1985 在東京成立私人工作室

1995 創(chuàng)立非政府組織——建筑師志愿者網(wǎng)絡(luò)（VAN）1995-1999 聯(lián)合國(guó)難民事務(wù)高級(jí)專員顧問(wèn)

執(zhí)教生涯

1993-1995 多摩美術(shù)大學(xué)建筑系兼職教授

1995-1999 橫濱國(guó)立大學(xué)建筑系兼職教授

1996-2000 日本大學(xué)建筑系兼職教授

2000 哥倫比亞大學(xué)客座教授

哥倫比亞大學(xué)康納德·基恩中心訪問(wèn)學(xué)者

2001-2008 慶應(yīng)義塾大學(xué)教授

2010 哈佛大學(xué)客座教授

康奈爾大學(xué)客座教授

2011- 京都藝術(shù)與設(shè)計(jì)大學(xué)教授

獲得榮譽(yù)

2001 時(shí)代雜志年度創(chuàng)新人物

2004 美國(guó)建筑師學(xué)會(huì)榮譽(yù)資深會(huì)員（HFAIA）2005 英國(guó)皇家建筑師學(xué)會(huì)國(guó)際獎(jiǎng)學(xué)金（IFRIBA）

阿默斯特學(xué)院人文學(xué)榮譽(yù)博士

2006 加拿大皇家建筑師學(xué)會(huì)榮譽(yù)院士

2006-2009 普利茲克建筑獎(jiǎng)評(píng)委會(huì)成員

2009 慕尼黑工業(yè)大學(xué)名譽(yù)博士學(xué)位

2010 法國(guó)藝術(shù)與文學(xué)學(xué)院碩士

2011 法國(guó)國(guó)家榮譽(yù)勛章

2014 庫(kù)珀聯(lián)盟名譽(yù)博士學(xué)位

2014 普利茲克建筑獎(jiǎng)

Born

August 5,1957, Tokyo, Japan

Education

1977-1980 Southern California Institute of Architecture 1980-1982 Cooper Union School of Architecture

1984 Received Bachelor of Architecture from Cooper Union

Worked

1982-1983 Arata Isozaki, Tokyo

Founded

1985 Established private practice in Tokyo

1995 Established NGO, Voluntary Architects' Network (VAN)

1995-1999 Consultant of United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR)

Teaching

1993-1995 Adjunct Professor of Architecture at Tama Art University

1995-1999 Adjunct Professor of Architecture at Yokohama National University

1996-2000 Adjunct Professor of Architecture at Nihon University

2000 Visiting Professor of Columbia University Visiting Fellow of Donald Keen Center, Columbia University

2001-2008 Professor of Keio University

2010 Visiting Professor of Harvard University GSD Visiting Professor of Cornell University

2011- Professor, Kyoto University of Art and Design Recognition

2001 Time Magazine Innovator of the Year

2004 Honorary Fellow of the American Institute of Architects (HFAIA)

2005 International Fellowship of the Royal Institute of British Architects (IFRIBA)

Honorary Doctor of Humane Letters Amherst College

2006 Honorary Fellow of the Royal Architectural Institute of Canada (HRAIC)

2006-2009 Jury Member of the Pritzker Architecture Prize

2009 Honorary Doctorate of Technical University of Munich

2010 l'Ordre des Arts et des Lettres in France

2011 l'Ordre National du Mérite in France

2014 Honorary Doctorate of Cooper Union

2014 The Pritzker Architecture Prize

WA：您在許多項(xiàng)目中，常常將紙管、啤酒箱或集裝箱當(dāng)作基本的建筑要素使用。您在設(shè)計(jì)中運(yùn)用這些現(xiàn)成工業(yè)產(chǎn)品的態(tài)度，是否得益于在南加州建筑學(xué)院（SCI-Arc）的求學(xué)經(jīng)歷和當(dāng)時(shí)加州波普藝術(shù)的美學(xué)？

坂茂：我想并沒(méi)有這種聯(lián)系。

WA：紙管是您非常喜愛(ài)使用的建筑材料。它們價(jià)格便宜，隨處可得。除此之外，使用它們是否還有其他好處，例如紙管適合不同類型的節(jié)點(diǎn)或在視覺(jué)上具有某種韻律感？

坂茂：我喜愛(ài)所有材料，甚至是混凝土和鋼材。紙管的優(yōu)點(diǎn)還包括輕質(zhì)。這樣即使是學(xué)生也能完成建造工作。當(dāng)然，它也創(chuàng)造了完全不同的建筑形式。

WA：當(dāng)把紙管從一個(gè)國(guó)家運(yùn)到另一個(gè)國(guó)家時(shí)，運(yùn)輸費(fèi)是否會(huì)超過(guò)在另一國(guó)當(dāng)?shù)刭?gòu)買建材的費(fèi)用？

坂茂：我從未運(yùn)輸紙管，除了在臺(tái)灣紙教堂項(xiàng)目中，紙管是遷移自神戶。然而在該項(xiàng)目中，盡管使用臺(tái)灣當(dāng)?shù)氐募埞軙?huì)更便宜些。但對(duì)臺(tái)灣地震的受害者來(lái)說(shuō)，再次使用為神戶地震受害者建造的紙教堂，表達(dá)了重要的信息和意義。

WA：無(wú)論是人道主義項(xiàng)目還是標(biāo)志性建筑，您總是關(guān)注建筑材料和結(jié)構(gòu)的創(chuàng)新。在這兩類不同的項(xiàng)目中，您的設(shè)計(jì)創(chuàng)新策略會(huì)有什么不同？

坂茂：其實(shí)并沒(méi)有什么不同。

WA：在您的設(shè)計(jì)中，還常常能看到內(nèi)外空間的連續(xù)性和半透明界面產(chǎn)生的神奇氛圍。這些設(shè)計(jì)主題是否來(lái)自日本傳統(tǒng)的住宅空間？

坂茂：可以說(shuō)是，也可以說(shuō)不是。在許多不同的文化中——西方的、伊斯蘭的等等，都有這種之間的空間（in between spaces）存在。

WA：您在中國(guó)有兩個(gè)項(xiàng)目——成都華林小學(xué)臨時(shí)校舍和四川蘆山縣的苗苗幼兒園。在這兩個(gè)項(xiàng)目的建造過(guò)程中，您有沒(méi)有遇到過(guò)特殊的困難？

坂茂：有的。在華林小學(xué)項(xiàng)目中，一家當(dāng)?shù)毓旧a(chǎn)的木榫頭并不合格。那些木榫頭本應(yīng)該是實(shí)心的，但實(shí)際上卻是空心的。

WA：在韓國(guó)高爾夫俱樂(lè)部、法國(guó)蓬皮杜梅斯中心和瑞士蘇黎世Tamedia新辦公大樓中，創(chuàng)新性的木結(jié)構(gòu)頗具表現(xiàn)力。在些項(xiàng)目的結(jié)構(gòu)設(shè)計(jì)中，您是如何與結(jié)構(gòu)工程師進(jìn)行合作的？

坂茂：從這些項(xiàng)目一開(kāi)始，我都是與一位瑞士木結(jié)構(gòu)工程師赫爾曼·布魯默（Hermann Blumer）合作。WA：您還十分重視項(xiàng)目中的家具設(shè)計(jì)，經(jīng)?；ňυO(shè)計(jì)用于儲(chǔ)藏和展示的格架。是否這意味著您十分關(guān)注建筑中發(fā)生的日常生活？

坂茂：是的。我愿意親自設(shè)計(jì)所有的東西。

WA：讓人道主義項(xiàng)目更有說(shuō)服力的一個(gè)要素是其長(zhǎng)期的社會(huì)效果。在您的人道主義項(xiàng)目中，您是否追蹤過(guò)長(zhǎng)期的使用效果？如果有的話，結(jié)果如何？

坂茂：項(xiàng)目完成后過(guò)段時(shí)間，我常常會(huì)去回訪。而維護(hù)是十分必要的。

WA：我們生活在一個(gè)講究政治正確的時(shí)代。在當(dāng)代建筑中，是否政治正確被過(guò)于看重？

坂茂：我想我從沒(méi)考慮過(guò)這一點(diǎn)。

WA: Paper tubes, beer crates and containers are often used as fundamental architectural elements in your projects. Does your attitude towards these ready-made products benefit from your educational experience in SCI-Arc and Pop Art aesthetics in California?

Ban: No.

WA: Paper tubes are your favourite building material. Besides they are cheap and available everywhere, are there any other advantages for using them, such as suitable for different types of joint or rhythmical image?

Ban: I like any material even concrete and steel. Other advantage of paper tube is light weight, so that the construction can be done even by students. Also it creates totally different type of architectural forms.

WA: When paper tubes are transported from one country to another, will the freight cost more than the expense of buying local materials?

Ban: I never transport paper tube except the Paper Church in Taiwan relocated from Kobe. Although it should be cheaper to use locally available paper tube in Taiwan, at this time it has other important message and meaning to re-use Paper Church used for the victims of the Kobe earthquake for the victims of the Taiwan earthquake.

WA: In both humanitarian work and monumental projects, innovation related to building materials and structures is always your focus. But what is the difference between innovative strategies in those two types of projects?

Ban: There is no difference.

WA: Spatial continuity between interior and exterior and translucent magical atmosphere are also your design themes. Do those themes come from traditional Japanese housing space?

Ban: Yes or (and) No. Those kind of in between spaces exists in many spaces of different culture, west, Islamic…

WA: In Chinese projects - Paper Temporary Chengdu Hualin Elementary School and Lushan Cardboard Tubes Kindergarten, did you get in any special troubles in construction process?

Ban: Yes. For Hualin Elementary school, the wooden joint made by a local company was a defective product. It had to be solid wood joint, but it was empty inside.

WA: In projects of Korean Golf Club House, Centre Pompidou-Metz, and Zurich Tamedia Building, how did you cooperate with structural engineers during the process of those innovative and expressive timber structures design?

Ban: I collaborated with the same Swiss timber engineer, Hermann Blumer, from the beginning of the project.

WA: Furniture design such as shelves for storage and display is also paid a lot of attention in your work. Does this express your care for everyday living in buildings?

Ban: Yes. Also I would like to design everything by myself.

WA: One element that makes humanitarian projects more convincing is the long-term social effect. Do you trace the long-term usage of your humanitarian projects? If so, what are the results?

Ban: I come back to see those projects after a while. Always maintenances are necessary.

WA: We are living in a time of political correctness. Is political correctness over rated in contemporary architecture?

Ban: I never thought about it.

清華大學(xué)建筑學(xué)院

2014-10-07