Tori Amos has been looking at a lot of artwork and she turns the visual into the musical on her new CD.

（Soundbite of Song， “16 Shades of Blue”）

Rachel： Thats the song “16 Shades of Blue，” which refers to the artist Paul Cézanne， who is said to have had at least 16 shades of blue on his palette. Its a tune about aging from an artist who hit a significant milestone last year. Tori Amos turned 50， by the way. Shes explored a number of musical styles recently， from classical， where she began as a child， to a staged musical.

“The Black Clock” by Cézanne was very much what spurred on the song “16 Shades of Blue.”I really didnt get Cézanne until I turned 50. He didnt make any sense to me. Then I turned 50 and I was looking at “The Black Clock” and I started hearing the rhythm and the piano of this song. I read that Rilke wrote that Cézanne would paint with over 16 shades of blue on his palette at one time， and I had just turned 50， and I thought about how you learn from women about the different pressures of different ages， whether youre 15， 18 or in your 20s. I realized it was important to talk about the clock ticking， bringing different types of pressure to different types of women. —Time Magazine Interview

（Soundbite of Song， “Troubles Lament”）

Rachel： Often when you think about good and evil themes in country music， which comes up a lot， artists tend to use the word “devil.” You use the word “Satan，”which has a different kind of religious reference to it， a religious weight. Your dad was a preacher， a minister， right？

Tori： Methodist ministry， yes.

Rachel： Does that language find its way into your songwriting？

Tori： Well， he said to me so many times， “Oh， just be grateful youre a ministers daughter， what…what would you write about if I had been a dentist？”

I attended the Peabody Conservatory for classical music when I was five， but later fell out with its conservative philosophy. My dad said if I wanted a career in contemporary music I needed training. One day， when I was 13， he told me to dress to look older， so I put on trousers and heels and we went out and knocked on the doors of bars in Georgetown， Washington. Mr Henrys， a gay bar， gave me my first opportunity. My dad got flak from some parishioners， but he told them： “I cant think of a safer place for a 13-year-old girl than a gay bar.” —Mail Online Interview

Rachel： I gather there is another big influence on this recording—your young teenage daughter Natashya？ Youve said the song “Rose Dover” is about how to grow up with your imagination intact， which is an interesting kind of idea. Is that…thats clearly something that you wish for her.

Tori： I found that theres certain teenagers that have a very magical imagination and are trying to hold on to it， but sometimes they do have to combat judgment， harsh judgment from their peers.

（Soundbite of Song， “Rose Dover”）

Rachel： I imagine the answer is yes， but Im going to ask anyway—has parenthood， in particular raising a daughter， a teenager now， changed how you approach making music？

Tori： Its changed everything， Rachel. Im a different person. Becoming a mom was what I needed to refocus my attention. Magic glasses， I would call them. So I took off my other glasses， which might have been—Ill raise my hand—self-involved glasses， and then take off those glasses and put on mom glasses， and all of a sudden its in Technicolor.

I was very close to my mother as the youngest of three. She was my playmate. I went to school but I just didnt find it as stimulating as listening to mum. She would read to me Edgar Allan Poes The Raven， Robert Frosts The Road Not Taken and my favourite， Emily Dickinsons Because I Could Not Stop For Death. It didnt seem heavy， she was just sharing her favourite poetry and stories. She would have been an English teacher if she hadnt become a ministers wife， and I was her willing student.

—Mail Online Interview

多莉·艾莫絲最近對(duì)繪畫作品多有涉獵，她在新專輯里將這些視覺元素轉(zhuǎn)化成了音樂(lè)素材。

（歌曲《16種藍(lán)色》片段）

蕾切爾：剛剛那首歌曲的歌名《16種藍(lán)色》源自畫家保羅·塞尚，據(jù)說(shuō)在他的調(diào)色板上至少有16種不同的藍(lán)色。這是一首關(guān)于“衰老”的曲子，來(lái)自一位在去年迎來(lái)重大里程碑的藝人——多莉·艾莫絲。順帶一提，她去年50歲了。最近她在鉆研探索好幾種音樂(lè)風(fēng)格，包括她從小開始接觸的古典音樂(lè)，還有舞臺(tái)音樂(lè)劇等。

從很大程度上說(shuō)，是塞尚的《黑色時(shí)鐘》催生了這首《16種藍(lán)色》。我直到年過(guò)半百才真正看明白了塞尚（的作品）。過(guò)去我總是搞不懂他。后來(lái)到了50歲，我看著《黑色時(shí)鐘》，耳邊開始流淌出這首歌的旋律和鋼琴聲。我讀到過(guò)里爾克曾寫道，塞尚每次在作畫的時(shí)候，會(huì)在調(diào)色盤里調(diào)出超過(guò)16種深淺不一的藍(lán)色。我已經(jīng)50歲了，我不禁想到不管你現(xiàn)在15歲、18歲還是雙十年華，你都可以從女性身上學(xué)到些什么東西，因?yàn)椴煌挲g層的女性會(huì)面臨不同的壓力。我意識(shí)到這是很有意義的事情——講講時(shí)間的流逝，講講年歲給不同的女性帶來(lái)的各種壓力。 ——《時(shí)代周刊》專訪

（歌曲《麻煩的挽歌》片段）

蕾切爾：每當(dāng)人們想到鄉(xiāng)村音樂(lè)里關(guān)于善與邪惡的主題——這類主題比比皆是，歌手們常常喜歡用“惡魔”這個(gè)詞，而你用的是“撒旦”，這個(gè)詞有著不一樣的宗教含義，有種宗教的厚重感。你的爸爸是一位傳教士，一位牧師，對(duì)吧？

多莉：衛(wèi)理公會(huì)的牧師，沒(méi)錯(cuò)。

蕾切爾：宗教語(yǔ)言會(huì)影響你的歌曲創(chuàng)作嗎？

多莉：這個(gè)嘛，他老是這樣對(duì)我說(shuō)：“噢，你該慶幸你是個(gè)牧師的女兒，如果我是一個(gè)牙醫(yī)，你會(huì)寫出什么東西來(lái)?。俊?/p>

我五歲就去了皮博迪音樂(lè)學(xué)院學(xué)習(xí)古典音樂(lè)，但后來(lái)實(shí)在無(wú)法接受那里的保守派作風(fēng)。爸爸說(shuō)，如果我想投身當(dāng)代音樂(lè)界，我就必須接受“培訓(xùn)”。有一天——那時(shí)我才13歲，他讓我打扮得老成一點(diǎn)，于是我換上褲子，蹬著一雙高跟鞋，我們一起出門，在華盛頓的喬治城敲開了一家又一家酒吧的大門。一家同性戀酒吧——亨利先生酒吧給了我第一個(gè)機(jī)會(huì)。教區(qū)里有些教徒嚴(yán)厲譴責(zé)我爸爸的行為，但他對(duì)他們說(shuō)：“對(duì)一個(gè)13歲的小女生來(lái)說(shuō)，我想不出還有比同性戀酒吧更安全的地方了?！薄睹咳锗]報(bào)》網(wǎng)絡(luò)版專訪

蕾切爾：據(jù)我所知，你錄制這張專輯還受到另一個(gè)重要因素的影響，就是你那正值花季的女兒娜塔莎對(duì)吧？你曾經(jīng)說(shuō)過(guò)，《蘿絲·多弗》這首歌講的是如何在成長(zhǎng)的過(guò)程中保持想象力，這是一個(gè)挺有意思的想法。是否……這顯然是你對(duì)女兒的期望吧。

多莉：我發(fā)現(xiàn)有那么一些青少年，他們有著特別神奇的想象力，也希望一直保有這種能力;但他們有時(shí)候確實(shí)要和各種評(píng)頭論足作斗爭(zhēng)，他們要面對(duì)同齡人那無(wú)情的指指點(diǎn)點(diǎn)。

（歌曲《蘿絲·多弗》片段）

蕾切爾：我猜你一定會(huì)給我一個(gè)肯定的答案，不過(guò)我還是想問(wèn)一問(wèn)：為人母親——特別是養(yǎng)育女兒，她現(xiàn)在已經(jīng)是個(gè)少女了，這是否改變了你創(chuàng)作音樂(lè)的方式？

多莉：這確實(shí)改變了一切，蕾切爾。我已經(jīng)完全不同了。當(dāng)媽媽正是我所需要的東西，這讓我重新找到了生活的重心。我會(huì)說(shuō)這就是我的“魔法眼鏡”。我摘掉了其他“眼鏡”——我得承認(rèn)，那些也許都是些以自我為中心的眼鏡。我把這些眼鏡都摘下來(lái)，戴上“媽媽眼鏡”，整個(gè)世界突然一片斑斕。

作為三個(gè)孩子當(dāng)中的幺女，我和母親非常親近，她就是我的玩伴。我上學(xué)了，但是我發(fā)現(xiàn)學(xué)校根本不像聽媽媽說(shuō)話那么讓我興奮。她會(huì)給我念埃德加·愛倫·坡的《烏鴉》和羅伯特·弗羅斯特的《未選擇的路》，還有我最喜歡的詩(shī)歌——艾米莉·狄金森的《因?yàn)槲也荒芡２降却郎瘛?。這聽起來(lái)一點(diǎn)都不沉重，她只是在向我分享她所喜歡的詩(shī)歌和故事。如果她沒(méi)有嫁給一個(gè)牧師，她或許會(huì)去當(dāng)英語(yǔ)老師，我會(huì)是她好學(xué)的學(xué)生。

——《每日郵報(bào)》網(wǎng)絡(luò)版專訪

笑 柄

英解：somebody or something that is regarded as being foolish

“Stock”（足枷）是古時(shí)英國(guó)用來(lái)拘禁犯人的刑具之一，犯人會(huì)被帶到一個(gè)廣場(chǎng)示眾，在一旁觀看的人群會(huì)對(duì)囚犯丟東西，或譏笑辱罵他。“a laughing stock”（笑柄）的典故據(jù)說(shuō)就是由此而來(lái)。

A：They say you're going to dress like superman at the party.

聽說(shuō)你要在派對(duì)上穿得像超人一樣。

B：No way！ That would make me a laughing stock.

才不哩！那會(huì)讓我變成笑柄的。