Audie Cornish （Host）： Its time now to talk about men.

Unidentified Woman： In todays society， to be a man you have to get up every morning， go to the same job， provide for your family.

Unidentified Man #1： The biggest thing of being a man is to have her say youre the best daddy. I mean， I cant respect a man that dont take care of his kids.

Unidentified Man #2： Im married. Ive got two daughters and four grandkids. And thats what it means to be a man. Uphold your vows， stay around， raise your kids， do the best you can.

Audie： Weve been exploring notions of masculinity and what it means to be a man in America these days. But today， well talk about mens roles and expectations at home.

Stephanie Coontz： If you are a man in America， theres a very good chance you will be married at some time in your life. But theres a much smaller chance than in the past that you will spend most of your adult life in marriage， make all of your decisions there and make all of your life-course transitions there. Thats the big difference.

Audie： Thats Stephanie Coontz， professor of family studies at Evergreen State College and author of a number of books， including “Marriage， a History.” Stephanie， thanks for joining us.

Stephanie： My pleasure.

Audie： So first， what is the chance that the average man will be married at some point in his life？

Stephanie： Well， most demographers think that about 85% of men will marry at some point. That would be lower than the high point in all of American history in the 1950s， when 95% married.

Audie： And I understand there have been some shifts when it comes to class—right—and socio-economic status in terms of what men are getting married or not.

Stephanie： Well， thats a very interesting change. Back in the 1950s and 60s， there was very little difference between the marriage rates of college educated men， high-income men and lower-income men. And then in the 1970s， there were rises in divorce for both. But since then， weve seen a huge divergence. In general， all men are marrying at an older age than before. Today， college-educated men are much more likely to get married and much less likely to divorce than their less educated counterparts.

Audie： Stephanie Coontz， once men get married， what are their expectations in terms of their own role and the role they believe a wife should play and compare that to say 50 years ago？

Stephanie： Well， 50 years ago， guys expected to support this woman. She kept the house， provided services around the house—including sex， which is why marital rape was not illegal. Men took it for granted that their role was to be the breadwinner and the right and privilege that accompanied that was to be paid more than women in the workplace， to be deferred to at home. Today， men are much more likely to want a full partner. Good housekeeping skills have fallen way down in their desirable list of qualities—friendships gone way up. Many also want a woman who can share breadwinning. And men understand that women want more from them—more intimacy， more equality， more sharing of housework and childcare. The one thing that is still a little bit of a barrier is theres still a pressure on men， thats not yet put on women， to be the fallback provider. That， I think， is part of the reason that were having this divergence in marriage rates between lowerincome， less-educated men and higher-income， high-educated men.

Audie： Stephanie， briefly you mentioned sexual violence in marriages. But I understand theres been definitely some shifts in the numbers there.

Stephanie： Oh my gosh， the improvements in domestic violence have really been quite impressive. Of course， theres more than there should be but domestic violence in the 50s and 60s was often not even reported. When police did come， many police departments had a stitch rule， refusing to arrest unless a certain number of stitches were required by the wife. An astonishing number of women took it for granted. Theyd get slapped by their husbands. Domestic violence has been declining since the 1970s. And according to the Bureau of Justice， it fell by 72% just between 1993 and 2011. And thats on top of earlier drops that researchers have found.

Audie： Lets talk more about future trends in terms of what were expecting to see for men when it comes to marriage and fatherhood.

Stephanie： Well， were having more men who have children out of wedlock and who may not see those children. But for men who are with their children， were seeing much more involvement. Both college-educated and less-educated husbands have doubled their housework and tripled the amount of time with children that they do since the 1970s.

Audie： So with men doing more housework， spending more time with their kids—whats the cultural support for that？ I mean， how does that play out for them today？

Stephanie： Well， there are still some real cultural pressures against it. In some ways， men are still being tyrannized by the masculine mystique—the flip side of the feminine mystique that women rebelled against in the60s and 70s， which says if you dont act manly enough， were going to bully you. Were going to discriminate against you. Theres been a total reversal in who reports the most work-family conflict. Back in the 70s， women reported much higher levels of workfamily conflict than men did. Today， men report higher levels of work-family conflict than women do. Employers are not willing to accommodate men very much. They get teased. They get harassed. They get denied promotions. But the good news is that men really want to spend more time with their families. Theyre asking for family-friendly work policies， for leaves， for flexibility. And so this is no longer a womans issue. This is a mens and womens issue.

Audie： Stephanie， I want to mention one more thing. Recently， there was some controversy about a study that had come up about egalitarian marriages—that they also meant less sex.

Stephanie： Yes， there was a study based on data gathered in 1991 to 1992. And remember， those marriages would include marriages formed in the50s and 60s， when gender roles were much straighter. And they found that couples that—where men did a share of what was a traditionally female housework， had less sex and reported less sexual satisfaction than couples who clung to a more traditional division of labor. But of course， that was older data. And so recently， Sharon Sassler and Dan Carlson and some other researchers went back and just looked at marriages formed in the early 1990s. And they found that thats not true—that in fact， the couples with the most egalitarian sharing of housework have the most sex and report the most sexual satisfaction. The only exception is the less than 5% of couples where the man does most of the housework. And frankly， as a woman， I can understand that. Women dont much like it when they have to do most of the housework， even though weve had a hundred years of telling us that thats going to be a source of fulfillment， whereas men havent.

Audie： Stephanie， thanks so much for speaking with us.

Stephanie： Oh， youre welcome. It was my pleasure.

奧迪·柯尼希（主持人）：現(xiàn)在是時候聊聊男人了。

不知名女聲：當今社會，作為一個男人你要每天早上起床、做同樣的工作、養(yǎng)家糊口。

不知名男聲#1：做男人最重要的一件事就是讓她說你是最好的爸爸。我的意思是，我不會尊重一個不好好照顧自己孩子的男人。

不知名男聲#2：我結婚了。我有兩個女兒、四個外孫，這就是一個完整的男人——信守誓言、呆在家人身邊、撫養(yǎng)你的孩子、盡全力做到最好。

奧迪：我們最近一直探究在美國男性的概念以及怎么樣才算得上是男人。但是今天，我們來聊聊男性在家庭中的地位以及他們對此的期望。

斯蒂芬妮·孔茨：如果你是美國的男人，很可能在人生的某個階段就結婚了。但是與過去相比，你很少會有機會把大部分的成年生活都放在婚姻上，你作的所有決定、你人生中的所有轉折點都發(fā)生在婚姻生活里。這就是（過去與現(xiàn)在）很大的不同。

奧迪：這是斯蒂芬妮·孔茨，她是美國長青州立學院研究婚姻家庭的教授，也是包括《婚姻，歷史》等著作的作者。斯蒂芬妮，謝謝你參與我們的談話。

斯蒂芬妮：這是我的榮幸。

奧迪：那么首先，美國大部分的男人在人生中的某段時間結婚的幾率有多大？

斯蒂芬妮：好吧，大部分的人口學家認為大約85%的男人會在某個時間結婚，這個比率低于美國歷史上的最高峰——在20世紀50年代有95%的男人結婚了。

奧迪：而我了解到在男人是否結婚的問題上，階級、權利、社會經濟地位等因素都促使其發(fā)生了一些變化。

斯蒂芬妮：好吧，這是個非常有趣的改變。在20世紀五六十年代，受過大學教育的、高收入的男人與低收入的男人之間的結婚比率的區(qū)別不大。然后到了70年代，他們中的離婚率都上升了。但從此以后，我們看到了一個很大的分歧?？偟膩碚f，所有男人的結婚年齡都比從前晚了。如今，受過大學教育的男人比起那些沒怎么受過教育的同齡人來說，結婚的可能性大了，離婚的可能性則少了。

奧迪：斯蒂芬妮·孔茨，與50年前相比，一旦男人結婚了，他們對于自己以及妻子在婚姻中扮演角色的期望有什么不同呢？

斯蒂芬妮：好吧，50年前，男人都應該養(yǎng)活他們的妻子。她料理家事、提供在家里的一切服務——包括性生活，這就是為什么那時候婚內強奸不犯法。男人們理所當然地認為他們的角色就是養(yǎng)家糊口，因而隨之而來的權利和特權就是在工作中比女人得到更多的薪水，在家中得到服從?，F(xiàn)在，男人更有可能想要一個全能的另一半。在他們希望妻子有的品質的列表中，好的持家能力不是他們最想要的，而互助的友誼才是他們夢寐以求的。許多男人還希望有一個能跟他一起養(yǎng)家的妻子。男人們知道女人對他們有更多的要求——更多的親密度、更多的平等、更多地承擔家務和對孩子的照顧。這里還有一個障礙，就是男人還是有一個女人分擔不了的壓力——就是家庭的主要經濟來源。我想，這就是結婚率在低收入、沒有受到高等教育的男人與高收入、受過高等教育的男人之間出現(xiàn)不同的部分原因。

奧迪：斯蒂芬妮，你剛才簡單地提到了婚姻中性暴力的問題，但我知道這里的數(shù)據肯定也發(fā)生了一些改變。

斯蒂芬妮：噢我的天，家庭暴力的改善確實讓人印象深刻。當然，家庭暴力的事例肯定比知道的還多，但是在20世紀五六十年代甚至不會被報道出來。（如果發(fā)生家庭暴力），警察會來查看，但是許多警局都有一個“縫補原則”（譯者注：這里的縫補可能指的是對丈夫進行拘留教育），他們不會逮捕丈夫，除非妻子多次提出 “縫補”的請求。許多妻子們對家庭暴力習以為常，這很讓人震驚。她們會被丈夫掌摑。自20世紀70年代以來，家庭暴力的次數(shù)在減少。根據司法局的統(tǒng)計，僅在1993年到2011年間，這些案件發(fā)生的比率下降到72%，而這是研究者發(fā)現(xiàn)的早期下降比率中最高的一次。

奧迪：讓我們來聊聊未來男人在婚姻和父親的角色中會有怎樣的變化。

斯蒂芬妮：好吧，我們可能會有更多的男人在離婚后沒有機會看到以及照顧他們的孩子。但是對于那些跟孩子一起生活的男人來說，我們看到了他們更多的責任。自20世紀70年代以來，受過大學教育和沒怎么受過教育的丈夫都會承擔雙倍的家務、花比從前多三倍的時間來陪伴孩子。

奧迪：那么男人做更多的家務活，花更多的時間在他們孩子身上，這其中的文化支撐是什么？我的意思是，這對于他們起了什么作用呢？

斯蒂芬妮：好吧，這其中也有許多現(xiàn)實的文化壓力。從某方面說，男人還是受到一些男性色彩的壓制——在20世紀60年代到70年代間，女性對此進行了極力的反抗。意思是，如果你表現(xiàn)得不夠男人，我們就欺負你，我們就歧視你。（男人與女人）在工作和家庭中的矛盾得到了逆轉。在70年代，女性被報道出在工作與家庭中產生的矛盾比男人高。今天，男性被報道出存在這一矛盾比女性高。招聘者不太愿意接納男性。男人們受到恥笑、騷擾，他們的升職請求被拒。但好消息是他們真的想把更多的時間放在家庭生活中。他們要求有“家庭友好政策”，有請假的機會以及更多自主分配工作的時間。所以這不再是女性的問題，而是男性與女性共同的問題。

奧迪：斯蒂芬妮，我想再提一件事。最近，對與平等的婚姻的研究引起了一些爭議——這也包括了性生活的減少。

斯蒂芬妮：是的，是有一個基于1991年到1992年所收集到的數(shù)據的一個研究。請記住，這些婚姻包括在五六十年代建立的婚姻，在那時性別角色還很分明。那項研究發(fā)現(xiàn)，在一對夫婦中，如果男性分擔了在傳統(tǒng)中屬于女性的家務勞動，那么比起那些堅持傳統(tǒng)家庭分工的夫婦來說，性生活以及在此得到的滿足感會少。但是當然，這是較早的數(shù)據。因此最近，莎倫·莎思樂和丹·卡爾森以及其他一些研究者重新研究在20世紀90年代的婚姻。他們發(fā)現(xiàn)事實上這不是正確的，平等承擔家務勞動的夫婦其實經常有性生活，而且最能在其中得到滿足。例外的情況是不到5%的夫婦是男人承擔大部分的家務。老實說，作為一個女人，我能理解。當女人要承擔大部分的家務時，是沒有興趣過性生活的，盡管有一百年的歷史告訴我們，這會是滿足感的來源，同樣男人也是如此。

奧迪：斯蒂芬妮，非常感謝你和我們聊天。

斯蒂芬妮：噢，別客氣。這是我的榮幸。

親們，本期的話題是小編很感興趣的婚姻家庭問題，以下是我給大家收集的有關男性選擇妻子的15個標準，純屬給大家作個參考，不代表本雜志的任何觀點哦～

1.一個女人最重要的品質應該是善良，而且百善孝為先。

天下不知道有多少苦命的男人在受著自己的媳婦和自己親媽之間的夾板氣。如果我是一個男人，要是將要成為我媳婦的女孩敢問我“我和你媽掉河里，你先救誰？”我一準把她pass掉，這根本就不是人話！

2.賢惠，這是亙古不變的女性美德。

3.知書達禮，這是新時代對婦女與時俱進的要求。

一個女人的氣質和教養(yǎng)是豐富內心的流露，也是與別人真正拉開距離的所在。

4.有思想、有品位。

有思想使得她不屑于插足別人之間的閑話，她從來都是個“絕緣體”。有品位，使得她能匠心獨運地表達自己的風格。

5.懂事。

對于男人最重要的是尊嚴，她可以在家里抨擊我，但不能在公眾場合諷刺、嘲笑我。一個不懂維護丈夫尊嚴的女人，不要也罷。

6.充分信任，相對自由。

喜新厭舊其實是人的本能，誰也不能保證一輩子只對一個人有好感。奉勸天下所有將要結婚的女人用心學習《醫(yī)學心理學》，充分理解自己的丈夫喜歡在畫報、網頁上凝眸美女的嗜好，不要因為這些下意識的行為而吹毛求疵。否則就是將婚姻推向死亡。他想獨自呆一會兒，不要碎嘴地問什么究竟，送上一杯茶，輕輕地把門關上就好了。

7.有一份穩(wěn)定的收入。

不依附于男人生存的女人才能做到獨立，自尊。

8.沒有過多的物質欲望。

這一點非常重要！自古成由儉敗由奢。何況安于現(xiàn)狀和樂觀的天性使她能夠將青春延續(xù)。過分的虛榮往往使非“財大氣粗”的男人產生精神緊張，甚至為此不堪重負。她應該寶馬汽車坐得，自行車也能騎得;五星級酒店住得，野營的帳篷也不嫌棄，吃得苦中苦，方為人上人。

9.拒絕燈紅酒綠，不對異性過分熱情。

她有著良好的生活習慣，抽煙、飲酒、通宵達旦的宴飲狂歡都不會發(fā)生在她身上，她不會到酒吧、夜總會這樣的地方消磨時間。她知道自己的價值不是取悅異性，所以不會主動和別的男人搭訕，曲高和寡的才是陽春白雪。

10.天真有一點童趣。

一個男人若是真的喜歡一個女人，就應該最大程度地呵護她的純真。未失童趣的女子，能讓漫長枯燥的四目相對變得其樂無窮。

11.喜歡讀書和音樂。

喜歡讀書不是看什么花花綠綠的時尚雜志、喜歡音樂也不是什么聽過就忘的流行小曲。經典的書籍和音樂能讓歲月與生活的瑣碎無法在她的心靈上烙下痕跡。

12.工作能力強，有一技之長。

工作中的女人顯然沒有太多時間疑神疑鬼。有一技之長會使她自得其樂，很好地控制情緒。

13.當然，長得絕對不能丑，也別太好看，應該是那種越看越順眼的。

14.身體健康，并懂得養(yǎng)生之道和基本醫(yī)學常識。

15.懂得浪漫。

婚姻生活是一個有顏色、有生息、有動靜的世界，很難想象一個不具備浪漫、不具備情趣的女人是個好妻子。