論壇現(xiàn)場(chǎng)

《北京折疊》這部小說(shuō)相信大家都聽(tīng)過(guò)或者讀過(guò)，這本2016年獲得第74屆雨果獎(jiǎng)最佳中短篇小說(shuō)獎(jiǎng)的小說(shuō)，出自中國(guó)青年科幻作家郝景芳之手。北京可以折疊，世界也可以折疊。如果現(xiàn)在的世界與未來(lái)的世界折疊，那么，今天的青年人就是未來(lái)的領(lǐng)導(dǎo)者。本期“國(guó)際朋友說(shuō)”的嘉賓是5位來(lái)自不同國(guó)家的杰出青年。他們就“青年如何領(lǐng)導(dǎo)未來(lái)”這一話題，碰撞出了智慧的火花，給出了多元的解答。

We believe all of you may have heard of or read Folding Beijing a novel written by young Chinese science fi ction writer Hao Jingfang which won the best novelette award during the 74th Hugo Awards last year. Beijing can be folded and the world can be folded too. If the current world is folded with the future world, and then nowadays the youth will be the leader of the future. What are our young international friends concerned about? What are the notable stereotypes between China and foreign countries? What ideas can our international friends bring to the table for future leadership? On this episode of World Speaking, the spark of wisdom is ignited among fi ve outstanding young people from different countries. They each not only have different ideas, but also their personal experiences. On the topic of “How the youth can lead the future”, these 5 young people contribute an abundance of answers via dialogue.

欄目主持(Host)：吳星鐸，海龍國(guó)際教育創(chuàng)新研究院研究員，中國(guó)（Wu Xingduo，researcher of Seadragon Innovation Institute of International Education，China）

特邀主持(Special Host)：陳銘，湖北衛(wèi)視《非正式會(huì)談》主持人、《奇葩說(shuō)》辯手，中國(guó)（Chen Ming，The host of Informal Talks, debater on Let’s Talk, China）

嘉賓(Guests)：阿卜杜拉提夫，敘利亞，清華大學(xué)建筑學(xué)博士，建筑設(shè)計(jì)師（Abdullatif, Syria, Doctor of Architecture of Tsinghua University, Architect）艾美麗，埃及，資深社會(huì)工作者（Emmerly, Egypt, Senior Social Worker）功必?fù)P，阿根廷，《非正式會(huì)談》人氣嘉賓（Brian Gonzalez，Argentina, Informal Talks popular guest）帕特里克，德國(guó)，中國(guó)人民大學(xué)留學(xué)生，德國(guó)青年戲劇演員、編劇（Partrick, Germany, Foreign Student at Renmin University of China, German，Young Drama actor and screenwriter）柳茜，中國(guó)，哈佛大學(xué)畢業(yè)生，世界青年發(fā)展論壇創(chuàng)辦人（LiuXi, China, Graduate of Harvard University,Founder of World Youth Development Forum）

困難重重，各顯神通

阿卜杜拉提夫：我生長(zhǎng)在一個(gè)非常美麗的地中海沿岸城市塔爾圖斯。對(duì)我來(lái)說(shuō)，建筑學(xué)能夠?qū)ゴ蟮臍v史以及通向未來(lái)和技術(shù)之路聯(lián)系起來(lái)。我在敘利亞獲得了建筑學(xué)學(xué)士學(xué)位。但是，大家都知道，2011年的時(shí)候，危機(jī)爆發(fā)了，所有的敘利亞人受到了這場(chǎng)危機(jī)的影響。這之后，我開(kāi)始思考我的生活，我的人生。我問(wèn)自己，我們敘利亞難民的真實(shí)處境是怎樣的，我怎樣才能更好地幫助他們。我開(kāi)始重新審視，建筑到底是什么。在我看來(lái)，建筑不僅僅能幫助人民傳遞很好的訴求，也能改變?nèi)祟?lèi)的命運(yùn)?，F(xiàn)在世界依然會(huì)發(fā)生局部戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)和自然災(zāi)害，我覺(jué)得建筑是我能使用的唯一的工具，我要使用它來(lái)幫助人們，給人們提供舒適的安身之所。

艾美麗：我出生在埃及一個(gè)非常普通的家庭，13歲開(kāi)始，我就開(kāi)始做志愿者。起初在埃及一些社會(huì)組織里工作，后來(lái)我和聯(lián)合國(guó)兒童基金會(huì)在埃及的辦事處合作，實(shí)際上我?guī)椭氖亲钚枰獛椭哪切┤?。之后我參加了不少?lài)?guó)際和區(qū)域的活動(dòng)。我愛(ài)上了這些活動(dòng)，我的同伴們很多是志愿者或者是實(shí)習(xí)生，他們不圖報(bào)酬，我覺(jué)得這個(gè)經(jīng)驗(yàn)很寶貴，我們的活動(dòng)幫助了其他人。

功必?fù)P：我的老家是阿根廷布宜諾斯艾利斯省的一個(gè)小鎮(zhèn)，雖然是一個(gè)小鎮(zhèn)，但是我的血管里流動(dòng)著阿根廷、西班牙、阿拉伯、非洲、法國(guó)、巴拉圭、巴西至少七國(guó)的血液。說(shuō)來(lái)也怪，突然有一天，我想學(xué)中文，來(lái)自那么小的一個(gè)城市，對(duì)中國(guó)的興趣是怎么來(lái)的呢？我也不知道，也許是緣分吧。我15歲開(kāi)始學(xué)習(xí)中文，5個(gè)月之后，我參加了阿根廷漢語(yǔ)比賽得了第一名，欣喜若狂。但等我真正來(lái)到中國(guó)，才發(fā)現(xiàn)自己只會(huì)發(fā)音和念一些詩(shī)，能寫(xiě)幾個(gè)漢字。對(duì)我來(lái)說(shuō)，挫折和困難反而更讓人興奮，中文不像西班牙語(yǔ)那樣，看到什么字母就怎么念，它更加復(fù)雜，而且和文化聯(lián)系得更加緊密。后來(lái)我靠著和一個(gè)學(xué)西語(yǔ)的語(yǔ)伴交流，中文突飛猛進(jìn)，后來(lái)阿根廷總統(tǒng)來(lái)中國(guó)參加“一帶一路”峰會(huì)時(shí)，我做了他在使館活動(dòng)的主持人。在和國(guó)家總統(tǒng)握手的時(shí)候，真的非常開(kāi)心、非常自豪。

柳茜：我是中國(guó)人，畢業(yè)于哈佛大學(xué)。很多人覺(jué)得進(jìn)了哈佛等于進(jìn)入了領(lǐng)跑人生的快車(chē)道，畢業(yè)之后一定是步入金融、政治領(lǐng)域，一路高奏凱歌。其實(shí)進(jìn)入哈佛之前我的確在投資銀行、聯(lián)合國(guó)這樣的機(jī)構(gòu)實(shí)習(xí)和工作過(guò)。但是，哈佛反而讓我走上了公益這條路上。因?yàn)樵诳夏岬蠈W(xué)院不論什么課，中國(guó)都會(huì)成為討論的焦點(diǎn)。但是大家對(duì)中國(guó)的看法多多少少有些偏見(jiàn)。我之后就和小伙伴創(chuàng)立了世界青年發(fā)展論壇，希望構(gòu)建以中國(guó)為基礎(chǔ)的溝通平臺(tái)，通過(guò)民間的角度將中國(guó)介紹給世界。在不斷交流中，我們真正看到了對(duì)外國(guó)同學(xué)的改變，對(duì)世界認(rèn)知重要的改變。我堅(jiān)信我們一直在創(chuàng)造價(jià)值，因?yàn)橛绊懥χ挥写笮≈?，但是做與不做是天與地的差別。

帕特里克：我來(lái)自德國(guó)，之前是一位演員，現(xiàn)在在人民大學(xué)念碩士研究生。在我9歲的時(shí)候，短短3個(gè)月內(nèi)我失去了外婆、外公，還有爸爸，現(xiàn)實(shí)的打擊之下，我逃到虛擬世界，沉迷網(wǎng)絡(luò)游戲，對(duì)什么都不感興趣。18歲后我離開(kāi)家，狀況也沒(méi)有什么改變。我能逃出泥潭還要?dú)w功于演員這個(gè)行當(dāng)。有一次，我面試上了一個(gè)癮君子的角色，在我了解、塑造這個(gè)角色的同時(shí)，也一層一層加深了對(duì)自己的認(rèn)識(shí)。劇本里這個(gè)角色，始終掙扎、戒毒，他不顧周?chē)a君子的反對(duì)，鼓起勇氣到戒毒所，到后來(lái)他輸了，輸給了毒癮，又陷入了惡性循環(huán)。我扮演著他，也扮演著我自己，終于敢于去面對(duì)自己的缺點(diǎn)，當(dāng)我24歲的時(shí)候，也就是今年，我用這種藝術(shù)治療方式獲得了新生。

Be Beset with difficulties and each showing his special prowess

Abdullatif: I grew up in a very beautiful city along the Mediterranean coast called Tartus. For me, architecture is able to connect signi fi cant history with the road leading to the future and technology. I believe that such an idea can be realised through studying architecture. I studied Architecture in Syria and obtained Bachelor in Architecture. However, as we all know,the country faced a crises in 2011. All Syrians were affected by this crisis. After this, I began to re fl ect on my life. I asked myself,what was real situation of our Syrian refugees and how I could better help them. I started to re-examine what architecture really was. In my opinion, architecture not only satis fi es the demands of people, but also has the ability to change destiny. Now that the world is full of war and natural disasters, I believe I can harness my architectural skill to help people in need by providing them with a comfortable place to live.

Emmerly: I was born to a very average family Egypt. I started to work as volunteer when I was 13 years old. Initially, I worked as volunteer in some organizations in Egypt, and later worked at UNICEF’s Egyptian office, helping those who most needed assistance. After that, I participated in numerous international and regional activities. I fell in love with these activities. Most of my colleagues were volunteers or interns. They did not care about rewards. These activities were very valuable experiences as we managed to help those in need.

Brian Gonzalez: I am from a small town in Buenos Aires Province, Argentina. Although it is a small town, Argentinean,Spanish, Arab, African, French, Paraguayan and Brazilian blood flows through my veins, blood of at least seven nationalities. Strangely, I wanted to study Chinese one day all of a sudden. Coming from a small town, how does one become interested in China? I don’t know, maybe it is destiny. I started to learn Chinese when I was 15 years old. Five months later, I participated in a Chinese competition in Argentina and won first prize. I was ecstatic. But when I came to China, I found that I can only pronounce, read some poetry and write several Chinese characters. For me, the frustration and dif fi culty made was exciting. Chinese is different from Spanish which can be pronounced according to the alphabets. Chinese is more dif fi cult and more intertwined with culture. Later, my Chinese improved greatly after communicating with a language partner who was learning Spanish. When the President of Argentina came to China to attend the One Belt and One Road Summit, I was made the host of his activities at the embassy. It was a very proud moment when I shook hands with my president.

LiuXi: I am Chinese. I am also a graduate of Harvard University. People may think that entering Harvard meant living life in the fast lane, that I will enter fi nance and politics after graduating. Life would be a bed of roses. Actually I was interning at an investment bank and the United Nations before I entered Harvard. But Harvard allowed my life to slow down and enter the field of non-profit. Because regardless of the course you pursue at Kennedy College, China would always be at your fi ngertips and become a topic of discussion. However,everybody’s opinion on China is more or less prejudiced. Later,I established World Youth Development Forum with a partner,hoping to build a communication platform based on China and introducing China to the world from a personal perspective.Via this communication platform, we were able to realise visible change among classmates and recognition on a global level. I strongly believe that we are continuously creating value. While in fl uence can be either big or small, there is a crucial difference between making and not making an effort.

Partrick: I am from Germany. I was an actor before and I’m now pushing a Masters degree at the People’s University .When I was nine years old, I lost my grandmother, grandfather and father within three months. Wanting to escape reality, I fled to the virtual world and indulged in online games, not wanting to wast and losing interest in everything. I left my home when I was 18 years old. The situation is not change at all. Once I became an actor, I managed to escape this pit. Once,I interviewed for the role of a drug addict successfully. While I understood the character that I was playing, I also gradually began to understand myself. The role I played struggled with addiction. However, he broke away from the clutches of the addicts around him and mustered the courage to admit himself to drug rehab. Finally, he lost to drug addiction and got caught in a vicious cycle. I not only played that role well, but also the role of myself. Finally, I was brave enough to face my own shortcomings. When I was 24 years old, which is this year, I found a new life in art as a therapy.

毛線團(tuán)般的偏見(jiàn)和誤會(huì)

阿卜杜拉提夫：我要指出的刻板印象或者說(shuō)誤解不止是中國(guó)和敘利亞之間，更多的是全球，或者說(shuō)西方媒體對(duì)于敘利亞。這些媒體在報(bào)道人權(quán)問(wèn)題的時(shí)候，提到了世界上其他地方存在的一些難民營(yíng)，卻忘記了在敘利亞國(guó)內(nèi)也有一些難民營(yíng)的。我想說(shuō)，所有敘利亞人看到這種圖片都會(huì)感到非常傷心的。很多國(guó)家和聯(lián)合國(guó)機(jī)構(gòu)都提供難民臨時(shí)住所，但實(shí)際上難民更希望有安全、舒適的地方，而不是這樣的“臨時(shí)”住所。

主持人：見(jiàn)到阿卜杜拉提夫之前，我心中的敘利亞是一個(gè)模糊的代稱(chēng)，跟他接觸并且交流以后我才認(rèn)識(shí)這個(gè)國(guó)度，它不是我們想象中的，或者新聞中描繪的遍地戰(zhàn)火、顛沛流離、民不聊生，敘利亞曾經(jīng)也相當(dāng)富有，相當(dāng)強(qiáng)大，也有一大批深深熱愛(ài)這片土地的人民，而即便在國(guó)家遭受了劇變或者創(chuàng)傷以后，從來(lái)沒(méi)有停下過(guò)怎么樣讓自己故土變得更加美好的腳步。

艾美麗：刻板印象或者誤會(huì)是相互的。距離不僅會(huì)產(chǎn)生美，還會(huì)產(chǎn)生誤會(huì)，就像非洲離中國(guó)很遙遠(yuǎn)，兩國(guó)地方的人也有不少誤會(huì)。非洲人普遍認(rèn)為中國(guó)人特別認(rèn)真工作，特別勤奮。一些中國(guó)人覺(jué)得非洲人是一樣的膚色，甚至有人以為非洲是一個(gè)國(guó)家；還有一些中國(guó)人認(rèn)為非洲特別貧窮，特別不安全。其實(shí)有的地方是能吃飽的，大部分國(guó)家都特別安全。非洲是特別大的地方，有60多個(gè)國(guó)家，每個(gè)國(guó)家有很多不同的習(xí)俗和風(fēng)俗，文化很多元。

主持人：2008年奧運(yùn)會(huì)之前，很多非洲人提到中國(guó)這個(gè)概念的時(shí)候，腦海中出現(xiàn)的都是黃土地，紅高粱，甚至還有很多人認(rèn)為是扎著辮子，光著頭，地上沒(méi)有汽車(chē)，主要是以馬車(chē)為主，這是中國(guó)傳統(tǒng)的出行方式。等到2008年奧運(yùn)會(huì)和2010年世博會(huì)的時(shí)候，很多人大驚失色，原來(lái)這才是中國(guó)。我也擔(dān)心同樣的心態(tài)會(huì)在當(dāng)今中國(guó)人身上再現(xiàn)，提到非洲想到的都是蒼茫戈壁、獅子、老虎，特別不安全。因此，像你們這樣信息的使者非常重要。

功必?fù)P：我遇到的更多是在語(yǔ)言上，很多人都覺(jué)得學(xué)中文沒(méi)有用，沒(méi)有收獲。當(dāng)時(shí)我的朋友都這么問(wèn)我，但我很快用行動(dòng)證明了自己，我主持了一個(gè)阿根廷著名足球運(yùn)動(dòng)員梅西參加的活動(dòng)，在活動(dòng)上我做了他的翻譯，還采訪了他，當(dāng)我把這些東西發(fā)到facebook上，朋友們都說(shuō)“你的人生圓滿了”。當(dāng)時(shí)我學(xué)中文的時(shí)候，阿根廷可能只有不到2000人學(xué)中文，現(xiàn)在一定越來(lái)越多了，因?yàn)橛懈嗟膶W(xué)校開(kāi)設(shè)中文課程。作為文化使者，最重要的責(zé)任就是讓世界看懂中國(guó)，然后讓中國(guó)了解世界，相互之間消除偏見(jiàn)和誤會(huì)。

主持人：你說(shuō)得很對(duì)，西方世界的慣常概念，還是以英語(yǔ)系國(guó)家為主，其實(shí)隨著國(guó)際交流越發(fā)深入，西語(yǔ)系國(guó)家越來(lái)越被人們熟知。而西語(yǔ)系不止西班牙一個(gè)國(guó)家，是一條文化的流派，一條脈絡(luò)延伸的族群。

帕特里克：我來(lái)到北京，認(rèn)識(shí)了一個(gè)導(dǎo)演，他小時(shí)候是家庭暴力受害者，因此在他日常生活中產(chǎn)生了層出不窮的問(wèn)題。他說(shuō)中國(guó)的心理治療和咨詢?cè)O(shè)施并不發(fā)達(dá)，很難找到相關(guān)治療。其實(shí)，藝術(shù)治療已有很悠久的歷史，在19世紀(jì)有一些比較出名的哲學(xué)家創(chuàng)設(shè)了所謂的存在主義心理學(xué)。在歐洲不少?lài)?guó)家，包括德國(guó)已經(jīng)認(rèn)定了藝術(shù)對(duì)青年的重要性。在德國(guó)幾乎每個(gè)公立學(xué)校的教學(xué)課程里都有戲劇的課堂。我看到中國(guó)也有一些青年沉迷于電子游戲，我非常支持以藝術(shù)治療的方式讓他們走出困境。

主持人：在我的印象當(dāng)中，人類(lèi)偉大的哲學(xué)家多數(shù)都是德國(guó)人，但是偉大的藝術(shù)家都是意大利人。但當(dāng)我看到你的時(shí)候，我意識(shí)到，這也是我固有的對(duì)于歐洲文化的偏見(jiàn)。

Gross Prejudice and Misunderstanding

Abdullatif: The stereotype I want to highlight exists both against China and Syria, globally and especially in Western Media against Syria. When these medias address human right issues, it is often mentioned that refugee camps exist in other locations in the world, but they forgot that refugee camps exist in Syria as well. What I want to highlight is that Syrians feel sad when such an image is portrayed. On the other hand, in the architectural fi eld, many countries and United Nations provide temporary shelters for refugees. But in fact, whats refugees truly yearn for is a comfortable place to stay, not a temporary shelter.Host: Before meeting Abdulla, my perception of Syria was very vague. I fi nally began to learn of this country after communicating with him. It was not the unliveable, war ravaged country where with rampant homelessness as we imagined and as portrayed by the media. Syria was very rich, strong and had many patriots.Even after the country suffered from such a radical change, the desire for national progress has not stopped.

Emmerly: Stereotypes and misunderstanding are mutual.Distance can create not only beauty but also misunderstanding as well. Just like in the case of Africa which is far away from China.There is a lot of misunderstanding between the people of these two countries. Africans generally think that Chinese are very meticulous and diligent. In fact it is overstated. In China, some Chinese think that Africans are all of the same colour, or that Africa is a country. Furthermore, it is widely believed that Africa is very poor and unsafe. This is not completely true. A proportion of the population has sufficient food. Most of the countries are very safe. The third aspect is in terms of culture. Africa is very large continent. There are over 60 countries. Each country has its own cultures and customs, all of which are unique.

Host: Before the 2008 Olympic Games, at the mention of China,Africans would think of yellow soil and sorghum fields. Some would even imagine braided hair, shaved heads and even only horses as transport with no cars, as horses were traditional modes of transport in China. When 2008 Olympic Games and 2010 the World Expo were held in China, it came as a shock that this was the actual China. I worry that Chinese people will have the same mentality of our Africa. When they mention Africa, what they imagine is boundless deserts, lions and tigers. It is not safe at all.So a messenger of information like you is very important.

Brian Gonzalez: I encountered more prejudice in terms of language. Many people thought that it was useless to learn Chinese. There was no benefit. At the time, all of my friends questioned me that way. But actions speak louder than words, and I was eager to prove them wrong. I presided over an activity that famous foot player Messi, the pride of our Argentina, participated in. I acted as a translator for him and interviewed him. When I uploaded this to Facebook, my friends were shocked and said that my life was perfect. When I was learning Chinese, the number of people in Argentina that studied Chinese was less than 2000. There is definitely a growing number of students learning Chinese as some schools are offering it as a subject . As a minor cultural ambassador, our most important responsibility is to let the world understand China and let China understand the world and what our country looks like to eliminate prejudice and misunderstanding.Host: What you said is very correct. The usual conception of the western world mainly focuses on the English-speaking country.In fact, with deeper international interaction, the Spanish speaking countries are known by more and more people.However, the Spanish-speaking establishment exists not only in Spain, it is also a cultural genre and a group extending networks.Partrick: I am going to talk about a misconception and I hope this misconception can be removed as soon as possible. I knew one director when I went to Beijing. He was a victim of domestic violence, as a result, endless problems emerge in his daily life.He mentioned that psychotherapy and counselling facilities in China are underdeveloped and that it is very hard to find relevant treatments. In fact, art therapy has a long history. In the 19th century, some of the more famous philosophers proposed a so-called existential psychology. Many countries in Europe,including Germany are fi rm believers in the importance of art on the youth. There are drama classrooms in teaching courses of each public school in Germany. Taking my analogy, I see that some youth in China addicted to video games. I highly support to use art therapy to let free them from this addiction.

Host: As far as I know, Germans are great philosophers, but the great artists are Italians. Art needs creativity and openness. But when I meet you, I realize that this is an inherent prejudice that I have on European culture.

折疊看未來(lái)，且行且珍惜

阿卜杜拉提夫：我從建筑的角度出發(fā)，現(xiàn)在已經(jīng)設(shè)計(jì)了一些關(guān)于難民營(yíng)的具體解決方案，比如結(jié)合很多小的居住單元，每個(gè)居住單元里能夠供人們居住，然后把這些居住單元結(jié)合在一起，我們就能夠創(chuàng)造出一個(gè)生活社區(qū)。

艾美麗： 我在中國(guó)獲得了碩士學(xué)位，現(xiàn)在我在一個(gè)中國(guó)公司上班，我準(zhǔn)備繼續(xù)深入了解中國(guó)，繼續(xù)我的一直以來(lái)的事業(yè)。

功必?fù)P：我最大的目標(biāo)就是推動(dòng)西語(yǔ)世界跟中國(guó)之間文化交流。

柳茜：我們的公益組織將持續(xù)發(fā)出以中國(guó)為代表的發(fā)展中國(guó)家的聲音。另外，給世界大學(xué)生們搭建了解中國(guó)的平臺(tái)，幫助外國(guó)同學(xué)來(lái)中國(guó)實(shí)習(xí)，帶來(lái)自己的項(xiàng)目；針對(duì)中國(guó)青年，我想要開(kāi)發(fā)“講好中國(guó)故事”課程。讓每個(gè)人都成為講好中國(guó)故事的種子，把中國(guó)介紹給世界。

帕特里克：我是演員，我想在中國(guó)演電影。

（中文整理：吳星鐸、王兆峰；英文整理：何波；本期合作單位：鳳凰網(wǎng)國(guó)際論壇之青年論壇、湖北衛(wèi)視《非正式會(huì)談》、海龍國(guó)際教育創(chuàng)新研究院）

See the future through folding, cherish what you have at the moment.

Abdullatif: From an architectural perspective, I have designed some specific solutions related to refugee camps, such as the combination of small dwelling units. Each dwelling unit is available for habitation. These dwelling units are then combined together to create a community.

Emmerly: I have obtained Masters Degree in China. Now I work in Chinese company. I am going to understand China more deeply and continue my career.Brian Gonzalez: I think my main objective is to promote the cultural communication between the Spanish speaking world and China.

LiuXi: In fact, I am no longer able to plan. I am already in the midst of doing or striving to realise my intentions. I want to use our nonpro fi t organization as a platform to represent a modern,developed China. Furthermore, we will give international university students a platform to learn about China, help foreign students to come to China for internships, and bring their own projects. For young Chinese, I want to develop a course called “My Good China Story.”, allowing them to act as ambassadors to introduce China to the world.

Partrick: As I am an actor. I want to act in fi lms in China.

(Chinese version: Wu Xingduo, Wang Zhaofeng; English version:He Bo.The current cooperating organizations: The Youth Forum of Phoenix International Forum, HBTV Informal Talks, Seadragon Innovation Institute of International Education. )