Celeste Headlee （Host）： 1）Anthropologists and 2）archaeologists， of course， study the way that groups live throughout history. Thats exactly what Jason De Leon is doing， although hes not looking at ancient Egypt or some other long-lost civilization. He heads the Undocumented Migration Project. And that project looks at some of the things immigrants crossing the border between Mexico and the United States leave behind. And hes trying to find out what that can teach us. So how did you first get the idea to even study this？

Jason De Leon （Archaeologist）： In a former life， I was a very traditional archaeologist and during the course of fieldwork in Mexico and in Latin America I met a lot of migrants， or people who were former migrants who had lived in the United States for different periods of time. Id gotten really interested in their stories and what it was like to cross the border undocumented. And I started thinking about different projects that 3）revolved around immigration.

And one night over dinner， I was having a little bit of a meal with a friend and she said to me， “You know， I used to do archaeological surveys in Southern Arizona looking for ancient sites and I have occasionally come across things that undocumented border crossers have left”. And she jokingly said to me， “You know I think someone could do some kind of weird archaeological project focused on the things that immigrants leave behind”. A week later， I bought a ticket and was standing in Arizona. About a month later， looking at a giant pile of migrant belongings and I realized that I could use my former skills in archaeology to understand this 4）clandestine social process.

Headlee： What are some of the 5）artifacts that people leave behind？

Leon： We currently have over 10，000 cataloged items and weve looked at， I would say， probably closer to about 35，000 items. And its a full range of things. All the things you would need to survive the desert： food， water， extra clothes， first aid equipment， as well as a lot of personal things—love letters， 6）rosaries， Bibles， photographs of family， diaries.

Headlee： Crossing the border seems like such an exceptional event. What do later generations learn from these artifacts that youve collected？

Leon： Well， you know， weve been migrating for the entire history of our species and weve been leaving stuff behind throughout the process. So looking at the material traces of immigration today is quite similar to if I were studying ancient Sahara crossings or the westward expansion in the 18th and 19th century in the United States.

Looking at it today， though， we see with immigration policy， the way that its been evolving over the last 10 years， is migrants are responding to immigration changes in a lot of different ways. As its gotten more dangerous， people have tried to get better at preventing physical injuries， maintaining 7）hydration， and trying not to die along the way.

Headlee： And you have found this through the artifacts， I mean， what do the artifacts tell you about how peoples approach to this border crossing has changed over the years？ Leon： When I first started this project， we found a lot of weird， kind of， personal things. Things thats you would think were strange to carry with you across this harsh desert. They make sense if youre leaving your home country， possibly forever， you want to bring some personal items， things that you cherish deeply. Over the course of the last five years， weve seen that people are less and less bringing these personal things and are more focused on just staying alive.

So the actual technology that migrants have adopted has evolved， youve got specialized water bottles now， specialized backpacks， fairly systematic first aid kits that people will carry with them. And theyve learned through the course of several years of these crossings， and some people doing multiple crossings will get smarter about what to bring and what to leave behind.

Headlee： How was that different then， say from a migration a thousand years ago， a few hundred years ago？ What are we seeing in this particular area thats different from our ancestors？

Leon： I think that there are a lot of 8）parallels between this migration， the great Irish migration in the 18th and 19th century. People who were leaving their homes for economic reasons or for social reasons and theyre bringing a few things with them that—to remind them of home， but then also trying to survive while 9）en route. So I do think that there are a lot of similarities.

Where I would say that the differences start to 10）pop up are that what migrants go through in the desert today， are happening right now， is one of the most systematic routinized forms of violence， I think that is occurring on domestic soil. People have 11）ratcheted up their tolerance for pain and for suffering， and migrants are incredibly hardy coming through this environment.

And what Ive seen， just over the last five years is that the tolerance for pain and suffering and for death has really kicked up incredibly. So I think youve got this more rapidly evolving migration process and its one that is more violent and 12）traumatic than any American migration story weve ever seen， outside of the West African slave trade.

西莉斯特·海德里（主持人）：人類學家和考古學家當然是研究歷史長河里，物種群居的方式。那正是賈森·德·利昂所研究的范疇，盡管他不是著眼于古埃及或其他消失已久的文明，他負責非法移民項目。該項目研究一些移民穿越墨西哥和美國邊境而遺留下來的東西，他在試圖從物品中發(fā)現(xiàn)一些值得我們借鑒的東西。那么開始你是怎么想到要研究這些的？

賈森·德·利昂（考古學家）：在以前的生活里，我是個非常傳統(tǒng)的考古學家，在墨西哥和拉丁美洲野外工作期間，我遇到了很多移民，或者一些不同時期在美國居住過的人，他們以前也是移民。我對他們的故事，對他們如何非法穿越邊境的情況很感興趣，于是我開始考慮以移民為中心的不同項目。

一天晚餐，我在和朋友吃頓便飯，她對我說：“你知道，我以前常常在南亞利桑那州做調查，尋找古跡，我偶然間發(fā)現(xiàn)了一些非法越境者留下來的物品。”她開玩笑地對我說：“你知道我認為有人會做一些奇怪的考古項目，比如專攻移民們留下來的物品?！币粋€星期后，我買了一張機票飛抵亞利桑那州。一個月后，我找到了一大堆移民的物品，我意識到可以用以前考古學用到的技能來研究這個秘密的社會過程。

海德里：移民們留下的人工制品都有些什么？

利昂：目前我們有超過一萬種物品，我可以斷定，我們已經找到了接近三萬五千件物品，各種各樣的物品都有。所有這些東西足以滿足你在沙漠生存的需要：包括食物、飲用水、備用的衣服、急救裝備，還有很多個人物品——情書、念珠、圣經、家人的照片和日記。

海德里：穿越邊境似乎就像一件異乎尋常的事。后輩能從你收集的人工制品中學到些什么？

利昂：嗯，你知道，在人類的整個歷史中，我們一直在遷徙，在整個過程中，我們不斷在舍棄物品。所以從所留下物品的線索來看，今天的遷徙跟我正研究的穿越古撒哈拉沙漠或18世紀和19世紀美國向西部擴張時的遷徙是十分相似的。

然而看看今天，我們看到隨著移民政策的修訂，移民方式在過去十年也在變化，移民們以很多不同的方式回應著移民政策的變化。隨著移民過程更加危險，人們要想方設法更好地避免身體創(chuàng)傷、保持不脫水，竭盡全力以免客死路上。

海德里：你從那些人工制品中了解到了這些，我的意思是，從那些人工制品中你了解到人們穿越邊境的方式在這些年有怎樣的變化？

利昂：當我開始著手這個項目時，我們發(fā)現(xiàn)了很多奇怪的個人物品。帶著這些物品穿越艱難險阻的沙漠，你會覺得很奇怪。如果你離開家鄉(xiāng)，可能一輩子，你想帶些個人物品，一些你非常珍視的物品，（這樣想的話）這些物品就顯得有意義了。在過去的五年時間里，我們看到人們越來越少帶這種個人的物品，而是更多地只是專注于存活下來。

所以移民采用的實際技術也進步了，現(xiàn)在你看到人們會攜帶專業(yè)水壺、專業(yè)背包和相當齊備的急救包。他們經過多年對穿越邊境的學習，有些人多次穿越變得更加精明，知道該帶什么，該舍棄什么。

海德里：那么如果說到一千年前，幾百年前，移民有什么不同？我們在這個特殊的領域看到的移民狀況跟我們的祖先有什么不同？

利昂：我認為遷徙都有很多相似的地方，比如18世紀和19世紀愛爾蘭人的大遷徙。人們因為經濟原因或社會原因離開家鄉(xiāng)，他們隨身帶著一些物品，以紀念自己的家鄉(xiāng)，但是他們也設法在路途中存活。所以我認為有很多相似之處。

要說到不同，我立刻想到的是今天人們如何穿越沙漠，那是正在發(fā)生的事，我認為那是最系統(tǒng)常規(guī)的暴力方式之一，無論是在移民本土還是在穿越邊境的過程中。人們加強了自己對痛苦和傷害的承受力，但穿越這樣的環(huán)境，移民們要承受不可思議的艱苦。

就我所看到的，在過去的五年來，移民要承受的痛苦、傷害和死亡的危險真的難以置信地提高了。所以我認為移民進程的更快速發(fā)展，導致的暴力和傷害比任何美國移民故事里看到的更大，這種危險幾乎等同于西非的奴隸貿易。